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Sep 28, 2012, 02:59 PM
Earthbound Skyhound
StarHopper44's Avatar
Originally Posted by SoarWest
...but I imagine the numbers would be the same as static ground testing as I do test with the props on and swinging of course.
Nope. Would work or should say, 'suffice' comparing relativity of one setup vs another, but static vs in-air stats will definitely be different. Heat (lessened in moving air) plays a sizeable part in powertrain efficiency, for one.

Something I'd like I don't believe the Watts Up will do, is a wattmeter with a knob that lets you set the input voltage then take comsumption readings. I want to do my testing at a steady 10.0V for record-saving & cross-comparisons. There's one on the market I know will do this, and I'd have one of them except it's accuracy is crap, reads +/- 3V of actual. It also tests servos yet burns them out, & they have high failure rates. Can't think of the brand but would know it if I saw it. Anyone know of some models which have that voltage-set feature, & is reliable? I'll dance at your wedding!!
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Sep 28, 2012, 03:19 PM
Registered User
I took a flier on the Turnigy 7in1 meter and it seems to work. To a point. The volt meter and watt meter check out against my old multimeter so the readings are within a couple percent. The tachometer works great and checks out against a friend's far more expensive unit. The servo tester is fine to simply check and see if a servo is functional but doesn't really offer any diagnostics. The internal resistance meter seems useless.

The thrust calculator is great for finding relative values but requires some guesswork to find an absolute value and I have yet to calibrate it. It has a little table of the relative efficiency of several brands of prop but one has to guess about any others. So? I arbitrarily use a slightly lower efficiency number for a no name slow fly prop compared to an APC and use the same value as the regular APC for my folding blades with similar profiles.

I haven't bothered trying the temp sensor yet. I have never heated up an ESC and, so far, my motors have had three temperature states; cool as the ambient air temp, slightly warm to the touch, and too hot to touch. A funny thing happened with my Hobby King 2834. The first time I ran it up with the 10X4.7 it got quite warm and didn't produce anywhere near the RPM, about 8,000, it should have despite drawing over 30 amps. I tried the 11X3.8 to see if I got about the same RPM and it got too hot to touch within 10 seconds. At this point I though I had a lemon but decided to try an ancient Top Flight nylon 9X4. The watts and amps went way down and the sucker hit over 11,000 RPM. Anyway, I put the 10X4.7 back on and it ran cooler, drew less current, and produced a higher RPM. I'm getting about 9,200 now after an initial burst of around 9,600. It works great and will even swing the 11" prop without cooking. My guess is that it had a tight bearing or something that loosened up when I ran the small prop at high RPM.

I'm doing the same thing with trying props. I'm using the cheapies from HK to find what my motors like and then, if/when I need a new one of a given size, I'll try the carbon blades mainly because they weigh a bit less. It does seem like blade weight makes quite a difference in motor performance.

These are the 11X6" blades I just got.

They are a bit lighter than the ones that come with the spinners and will spin faster than the 9.5X8 that came with this combo.

If you look closely you will also see that this yoke has nylon stop nuts. The two yokes that I have fit a prop with a 8mm shoulder and the collets are interchangeable.

If you look closely at this yoke you will see that the mounting screws are threaded into the yoke. The two that I have also have interchangeable collets but one accepts 6mm shoulders and the other is 5mm.

This worked out great because the prop that came with my ASW 28 has 4mm shoulders and, with a washer, works great with the 100 watt motor I'm using. By mixing the collets, one of which I drilled out to 3mm, I ended up with three complete combos between the four spinners.
Sep 28, 2012, 03:26 PM
Registered User
Oops! I went long.

Here's the meter I bought. It doesn't have the ability to set the input voltage but does give a constant readout in the watt meter mode. Everything that I've calibrated has proven to be accurate.

The way i look at it; if you are going to fly or not based on 10 watts, ,5 amps, or 100 RPM? You will probably drive yourself insane. It will tell you if you are pulling too much current and is perfectly adequate to tell you the relative performance with different combinations.
Oct 03, 2012, 05:32 PM
Registered User
This last week is why I love being retired. We've had glorious weather and great lift with bright sun, moderate winds, and temps in the low 70s F. I've been flying so much that the Specter's hinges are giving out and my 11X6 prop broke a blade. I think I nicked it on a landing and it gave out on my next climb. Thankfully I got it shut down before it tore the nose apart!

I've also worked up a pretty nice aerobatic routine for flying at dusk with no lift but I still can't figure out how to set up a V-tail so it will spin. But? That's all going to change tomorrow since we are predicted to drop about 40 degrees in the next few hours with high winds and rain. Or snow?

So I think I'm going to do a little work on the bird. New pushrods are the first order of business. They are functional but I've never been quite happy with them. Then I'm going to order some transparent red and/or blue covering and replace the yellow. I don't hate yellow but I prefer red and blue. Finally, I'm going to install metal gear servos since she seems perfectly capable of carrying a few extra grams of weight. The HXT 900s are holding up well but I have a bit of a fetish for metal gears.

I'll keep you guys posted about my progress.

Oct 03, 2012, 06:52 PM
Earthbound Skyhound
StarHopper44's Avatar
Sorry late to respond but somehow my subscription to the thread expired & din't see ur notes 'til just now. Experienced a bad 'puter crash earlier this week - might have been the culprit.

The thing with Turnigy is, OK, they make ('market' might be a more accurate word) acceptable-to-good products for the most part.Even the occasional foray into 'excellent'. But (too?) often, what you get is actually the same thing available elsewhere, only with their name stamped on it. Or even a different case. To wit:
vs here:
(Zoom in on the larger the labeling)

Prolly nothing you don't already know.....but the point being, I've seen a flame war break out elsewhere in RCG where one guy was claiming one of these was great - he owned one of course - and the other was pure junk, didn't hold up against his $400 Fluke meter, yada yada yada.....which the OP owned the other, tested & verified true, and it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. You've seen the same routine I'm sure.
Point is, internally they're both the same instrument, made by the same manufacturer.
And there's a chance the one I's talking about might be the one you have, rebranded.

This place can be a circus sometimes.
Oct 03, 2012, 07:43 PM
Trex 700, Gaui X5, 450DFC
SoarWest's Avatar
I've had to take my Specter off line for a bit until I can make some changes. The 2 primary changes are:

First I have to re-do the hinges on the Ailerons. Since they were made of covering, over time they have come loose, probably because I keep it in my car in the hot AZ sun so that I can get a flight in on the way home from work. The 120+ temps in my car have loosened it up.

Second: I need longer arms on my aileron servos and or control horns. I have not been able to get the throw I wanted for rolls and other fun. Primarily it's so that I have better control when landing and I add in crow. I want to really get those ailerons up so it'll bring the bird down.

That's it, flying others until I can get some time set aside and get that done.
Oct 03, 2012, 07:50 PM
Registered User
No problem, SH. This is pretty much just a chat thread and that is kinda what I had hoped when I started it. No rules other than simple courtesy.

I've stopped trying to figure out what is rebranded, what is stolen, and what is just an empty plastic case. I would gladly pay twice as much for American made products but I have no qualms about ripped off Japanese technology. I've been very pleased with the Chinese stuff I've purchased and I wouldn't be flying without them. I purchased a wide variety of cheap stuff to get familiar with the new technology and now I feel that I can make informed decisions about upgrades that I will spread out over the winter.

The only bad component I've received was a single servo in my ASW 28. Oddly enough, that is the one thing I bought from Tower Hobbies because I didn't want to risk a plane from another source. Between my own experience and that of others I would say that the risk with Chinese products is quality control. They ship a certain percentage of faulty products and, since most things cost more to ship back than replace, the buyer is stuck. On the other hand, they steal good technology so, if it works out of the box? It will probably work well. I can't speak to longevity because I've only been back in the hobby since March.

And now the Multi-Meter. It works but some of the functions are useless. It still cost less than many similar products and, having a passing acquaintance with electronics, I was able to calibrate it with my 20 year old and hideously expensive Bosch multi-meter.

It is very much a case of buyer beware and I don't think most of us have any illusions about that. I try to make it clear that I don't endorse the cheap products but I will pass along my impressions both positive and negative. I just happen to have more positive impressions than negative. I came close with my HobbyKing 2834 motor. The first time I checked it with the meter it was drawing too much current for not enough RPM and got really, really, hot within seconds. Then I put on a smaller prop and let it wind up and now it performs well with the bigger prop. I figure I had a stiff bearing that needed to wear in a bit and, though it could crap out at any time, it performs as advertised. I'll see how it does when I mount it on my forthcoming 3D ship I want to fly in the parking lot over the winter.

I'm also on a fixed income so I have to agonize over my next steps. Do I sink my budget on one uberglider or continue to build the fleet? I think I will probably risk $100.00 on the HoobbyKing DG 1000 because I want a bigger scale ship for the crowd. After that I'm torn. I could go with a couple budget planes or sink the rest of my pot on something a little more in line with the state of the art. A molded contest grade ship just isn't an option even if I give up beer entirely!

Since the Specter is a capable general purpose glider I'm looking at either a hotliner or a real floater and the TopModel line seems to have the best selection at a manageable price. (NOTE: "Manageable" means that I only have to give up beer for a month or two!) Since I enjoy covering and like a personalized scheme I'll probably go with an uncovered glider direct from the Cz rather than one from Esprit Models.

So? That's where I'm at. The weather here on the frozen tundra is about to close in so I'll be searching for projects. If nothing else I'll just have to glass and paint my ASW 28 just to keep from climbing the walls in boredom.

Oct 03, 2012, 07:59 PM
Registered User
Hi, Dale.

I just noticed my hinges going bad this afternoon. The bright, hot, sun has probably hurried the process but mostly it's just hours and hours of fun flying. Throw hasn't been an issue for me. I used the longest arms that came with the HXT 900 and I have the clevises in the second hole on the control horns. I did set mine up with differential throw by setting the servo arms two notches towards the leading edge of the wing. My roll rate is pretty good and very axial and, with them up about an inch at the trailing edge, I can land it like an elevator with any wind at all.

Cheers again!
Oct 03, 2012, 10:58 PM
Flyin' Ryan
Peter, you could search the classifieds or vendors such as Skip Miller for a used composite plane. I got a Muller Escape for less than half of what a new one would have cost. Yes, it is a previous version that may not be as competitive as a current design, but it is way ahead of anything I could buy new. Right now, that plane is better than my ability to use it to its potential. So, there are some bargains around on true high end stuff. You just have to find someone who has to have the latest and greatest, and be ready to go when it becomes available.
Of course, I think I have only flown my Escape a few time this year. It is a pure sailplane, and I often don't have time to set up the winch, or go to the sailplane field nearly as often as I can stop by the power field and fly my electric sailplanes a couple of miles from home.

Oct 03, 2012, 11:44 PM
what ya mean i have to land?
when redoing the aileron hinges,don't forget to do the tail hinges also.i recovered my whole wing and tail.hinges work great now.was flying today in some windy conditions,found a spot where i could dive then turn and climb on just wind,stayed upo for about 20 min before i even had to power up to climb again.was fun
Oct 04, 2012, 10:05 AM
Earthbound Skyhound
StarHopper44's Avatar
Peter, was that you wondering about how to spin a V-Tail? (I can't find the orig.thread)

Help you?
Oct 04, 2012, 01:26 PM
Registered User
I'm finding the Specter to be very versatile, oly. No wind and lots of thermals, high winds and no thermals, it performs well in any conditions I've tried. It even sounds great doing low passes in the calm of dusk. I am going to recover it over the winter but, aside from the one aileron, my hinges have held up O.K. After looking at it this morning it appears that I've developed a bit of a warp in said aileron and that pulled the hinge loose. A little work with the iron and careful inspections should get me through until the weather closes in.
Oct 04, 2012, 01:33 PM
Registered User
Yeah, that was me, SH. The problem, of course, is that the ruddervators perform two functions so they work against each other when trying to spin. I think I might have to play with the programming and set up a "spin switch" that will make it so they can only move up. I can get very close by just using full up elevator and tapping the ailerons at the top of the stall but rudder input kills the spin. I've seen V-tails spin so I know it can be done but I don't want to screw up the flying qualities during other maneuvers.
Oct 04, 2012, 02:00 PM
what ya mean i have to land?
yep,gotta agree there peter,i keep mine in the van,it's becoming my goto plane when i just want to get some stick time in and for relaxing flight.after redoing the covering and a few other things,the plane flys very predictable.heres a couple of pic.the last is my little go fast toy,figgure it does about 125 or so with a small 40 size motor.also,in pic 3,with the rods topside i can get a lot more throw forbetter rudder action
Oct 04, 2012, 05:57 PM
Registered User
You certainly won't get any argument from me, oly. I do, however, have a question. I had a Top Flight delta flying wing that went "1,000 mph" but I can't recall the name for the life of me. It wasn't quite as fast as my Qwickie 500 with the piped .61 but was really fun to fly and did the best vertical rolls, either up or down, of any plane I've had. Does that ring any bells?

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