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Feb 29, 2020, 09:21 PM
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GeoStork's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sagomon
Start of a Kraft 7c with no problems with the gimbals and no dual rates added,will be using Phil's 7 ch encoder on this with a Robbe/Futaba Faast module .I am waiting on some parts so may be a week or two before completion.
Spent about 30 minutes tonight stripping out all the old wiring getting ready to solder in the twisted pigtails to the pots tomorrow.
Made one goof where I was not paying attention to how the noble power switch was wired,I think I have it figured out in the 2nd picture with red being positive and yellow being negative.Please correct me if I am wrong or confirm if correct please.
The switch wiring is a little fuzzy (picture is fuzzy). Could you take another to show exactly which pins are connected? Are you connecting the left and right side (pins opposite one another)? With the wire?

Sorry, I harvested my switch from the board of a Sport Series radio (it was board mounted) and it did not have discrete wiring to it. Thanks.

Doug
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Feb 29, 2020, 09:56 PM
Registered User
sagomon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoStork
The switch wiring is a little fuzzy (picture is fuzzy). Could you take another to show exactly which pins are connected? Are you connecting the left and right side (pins opposite one another)? With the wire?

Sorry, I harvested my switch from the board of a Sport Series radio (it was board mounted) and it did not have discrete wiring to it. Thanks.

Doug
Can't take another picture as finished wiring up the encoder and pots and the wires now cover the switch.Did add the connections used of the 6 on the switch 3 and 6 are not used.And yes the wire goes thru to both sides of the switch.
Feb 29, 2020, 11:03 PM
ZR, OOS in a trash lifter
jmendoza's Avatar

Message for Phil-e


If you have a 72MHz receiver, use it with the correct crystal to test you Futaba 3 ch. transmitter for proper operation. This will tell you if the encoder is OK.

Remove the crystal to disable the RF section. It is possible the 72MHz RF is causing problems.


Jay
Mar 01, 2020, 08:04 AM
Registered User
GeoStork's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sagomon
Can't take another picture as finished wiring up the encoder and pots and the wires now cover the switch.Did add the connections used of the 6 on the switch 3 and 6 are not used.And yes the wire goes thru to both sides of the switch.
Thanks! Took a picture of mine (sans wiring) and this diagram may be helpful to other folks doing conversions. Thanks Phil_G for the ESV link! Reposting that here too. Waiting on a few more odds and ends. Very limited time to work on this so I'm time slicing (why isn't he done already?!?). Oh, yes I realize my switch symbol is a SPST not a DPDT like the Noble switch.

Expanded-scale meters for retro transmitters (5 min 55 sec)
Mar 01, 2020, 09:16 AM
www.singlechannel.co.uk
Phil_G's Avatar
I'd suggest taking the red labelled 'enc' horizontally across both contacts, for resilience
... and I never switch the neg, theres really no need (just another point of failure) but if you do, I'd suggest extending the neg across both too
I found my crayons and drew a pic:
Last edited by Phil_G; Mar 01, 2020 at 12:28 PM.
Mar 01, 2020, 01:15 PM
Registered User
sagomon's Avatar
KraftyOne,
Question for you or anyone that can answer.
How are the added elevator and aileron dual rates wired on a Series 77 or later tx.These are the one by Kraft that have the Switch and small adjustable pot mounted an a small square circuit board.Are they wired in series to the control pots?If so would they still work if wired the same way with Phil's 7 channel encoder?
Thanks for your time.John
Mar 01, 2020, 03:12 PM
ZR, OOS in a trash lifter
jmendoza's Avatar
I believe they are wired across the control stick pot making them in parallel with it. The switch adds, or removes the D/R pot from the circuit. It should work with a Phils encoder, but I have never tried it. Maybe Krafty One can offer more insight on this.
Mar 01, 2020, 04:47 PM
www.singlechannel.co.uk
Phil_G's Avatar
Here's my variable rates mod for the very basic Radiolink T4U set from 11 years back.
It parallels the stick pot with a switched rates pot as Jay suggests, though you must have resistors either end for it to work. This is the problem - those resistors are only equal if the stick and pot are perfectly aligned to centre - which half-shot retro sets never are. 'Modern' sets like the Radiolink have 5k sticks set to precisely 2.5k either way so equal value resistors work fine. If you did this with an old half-shot set, the neutrals would wander as you wound on the rates. Actually, if you have electrically-combined trims (either mechanical or series pots) then rates affects trim throw anyway

My solution would be either to free up a couple of pots by ditching the auxiliary channels, or to have a switched, fixed rate of (say) 40% on a simple toggle. Either option would be a program change and I want to avoid multiple versions - this is a simple encoder, for the adventurous there are more complex encoders out there with OLED displays, menus and throttle curves but the 328P has only 8 analogue inputs whatever software you run

You could do switched fixed rates in hardware by switching in/out 5k preset pots either end - so the 'low rates neutral' could be adjusted.
Where did I put my crayons? (last pic)
Last edited by Phil_G; Mar 01, 2020 at 06:02 PM.
Mar 01, 2020, 07:23 PM
Registered User
GeoStork's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil_G
I'd suggest taking the red labelled 'enc' horizontally across both contacts, for resilience
... and I never switch the neg, theres really no need (just another point of failure) but if you do, I'd suggest extending the neg across both too
I found my crayons and drew a pic:
Love it! I will incorporate the quad resilience, my foamies deserve it!
Mar 01, 2020, 08:16 PM
Missileer Extraordinaire
Mel Duval's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil_G
Here's my variable rates mod for the very basic Radiolink T4U set from 11 years back.
It parallels the stick pot with a switched rates pot as Jay suggests, though you must have resistors either end for it to work. This is the problem - those resistors are only equal if the stick and pot are perfectly aligned to centre - which half-shot retro sets never are. 'Modern' sets like the Radiolink have 5k sticks set to precisely 2.5k either way so equal value resistors work fine. If you did this with an old half-shot set, the neutrals would wander as you wound on the rates. Actually, if you have electrically-combined trims (either mechanical or series pots) then rates affects trim throw anyway

My solution would be either to free up a couple of pots by ditching the auxiliary channels, or to have a switched, fixed rate of (say) 40% on a simple toggle. Either option would be a program change and I want to avoid multiple versions - this is a simple encoder, for the adventurous there are more complex encoders out there with OLED displays, menus and throttle curves but the 328P has only 8 analogue inputs whatever software you run

You could do switched fixed rates in hardware by switching in/out 5k preset pots either end - so the 'low rates neutral' could be adjusted.
Where did I put my crayons? (last pic)
I found some mid size 5K dual element pots on EBay. Been wanting to try this with them.
Mar 01, 2020, 10:14 PM
Missileer Extraordinaire
Mel Duval's Avatar

Cool stuff


So I have been corresponding with a gentleman for a year or so I met at a swap meet. He has been in the hobby quite a long time (much longer than me) . I bought a couple of transmitters from him when we met. He said he had some things he was interested in selling and we have been trying to get together for a while. Anyway we did and I got some really cool stuff. Still sorting it out but there is a bunch of tube type and reed gear in there. Some pics of the neat things I dug out first are below. Couple neat ones for Scott and one for Krafty One. One thing of real interest to me is the RC Manufacturing system. I had never heard of it. I found it on the RC Hall of Fame. They had a magazine article and a couple ads. Looks like they have three transmitters which is interesting because most of the other systems they have several or even 10 of.
Last edited by Mel Duval; Mar 02, 2020 at 12:23 AM.
Mar 01, 2020, 10:31 PM
My 1st R/C had 2 valves !
KraftyOne's Avatar

A picture is worth a thousand words...


Quote:
Originally Posted by sagomon
KraftyOne,
Question for you or anyone that can answer.
How are the added elevator and aileron dual rates wired on a Series 77 or later tx.These are the one by Kraft that have the Switch and small adjustable pot mounted an a small square circuit board.Are they wired in series to the control pots?If so would they still work if wired the same way with Phil's 7 channel encoder?
Thanks for your time.John
I have written many times on the forums about the fact that the std. Kraft 7C/Signature Series throw adust/rate adjust systems do not work with Voltage Level input encoders. There is a current/time factor as well as a voltage level component in the linear ramp encoder input.

I have not seen any Kraft documentation on how the dual rates worked, it was just expected that you "knew" they were just another in-series throw adjust pot with a switch across it.

I have redrawn part of the 7C encoder schematic to show the elevator dual rate circuit, this has to be discarded and a D/R system such as the Ace Silver 7 or Phil_Gs (simpler, but requires multi-contact switches), used to get normal switchable rates when a voltage input encoder is used instead of the original linear ramp encoder.

I believe Scott is working on an Arduino system that will include "traditional" switched dual rates.
Mar 02, 2020, 12:10 AM
Registered User
HIR/Cer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel Duval
.... One thing of real interest to me is the RC Manufacturing system. I had never heard of it. I found it on the RC Hall of Fame. They had a magazine article and a couple ads. Looks like they have three transmitters which is interesting because most of the other systems they have several or even 10 of.
Some years back, occasionally one would see a RC Manufacturing TX with the inverted U antenna offered on the Bay, just looked at the RC HoF site and did not realize previously but Ed Thompson was the 'Series 800' designer. Another ad mentioned that their radio would be offered in kit form with articles in RCM, but don't know if that ever materialized.

Good showing of posts with the 2.4 conversions. Myself, gone somewhat modern with a recent acquisition of a used XP9303 TX, now programmed to switch in a bit of up elevator for a nose heavy foamy UMX Radian, activated when at no throttle. Could not accomplish that with my second hand also, citrus-colored TX (found out later its FCC logo was fake).
Mar 02, 2020, 03:29 AM
My 1st R/C had 2 valves !
KraftyOne's Avatar

4 Wire 9F Noble S/W Harness.


George,

I have found the 4w-s/w harness sketch, it was never intended for publication, just something I played around with while learning how to use an image editing program years ago. It does not show that the red wires are wrapped back around the terminals and threaded under the cross links.

The construction starts with the 2 black wires running from the battery connector to the Rx Connectors thru the centre of the switch. If you want a charge connector, a 3rd wire must be spliced into one of these wires.

That's it, FWIW,
Eric.
Mar 02, 2020, 05:41 AM
www.singlechannel.co.uk
Phil_G's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by KraftyOne
I believe Scott is working on an Arduino system that will include "traditional" switched dual rates.
Thats all done, my GG encoder for example has separate rates, and the 7ch doc shows how to add switches - thats not the problem, which is that the 328P has only 8 analogue inputs. Six are in use for your main channels, leaving only two so these were allocated as 'overall rates' and 'overall expo'. There arent enough for a rates pot per-channel and an expo pot per-channel, unless you drop to 4 channels. You can rob Peter to pay Paul, for example lose expo, but at the end of the day the 328P has limited I/O. Its a trivial change to the sketch to add a software-switched, fixed rate of (say) 40%, enabled by a toggle on a digital input - but as it stands there is only one spare digital input and you're asking for separate control of each channel.
As an aside, could I please excuse myself from the thread for a while, some of you know I suffer moderate depression and I'm on a downer atm, I find it best to take a break when I feel low.
Cheers
Phil
Last edited by Phil_G; Mar 07, 2020 at 04:12 AM.


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