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Old Jun 12, 2012, 04:23 PM
AhoyBlackHand is offline
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Pirate Skipper

AMYA Class Conflicts?

Waddup, fellow Skippers!

I've been sailing my Nirvana for a while now as a hobby, and have just gotten comfortable enough that I've started looking into Class racing. There are a couple of local groups here with various affiliations, so I'm trying to figure out which would be the best to join. During the course of searching, I ran across what is apparently a big ass conflict between AMYA and various international Class specifications at large. (There's a post about it here: ) My question is, should I avoid RC clubs that are racing under AMYA due to their arbitrary treatment of class specifications? Thanks!
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Old Jun 12, 2012, 04:34 PM
breakwater is offline
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Where do you live?

In the USA?
You are governed by USA rules.
Logically You should follow AMYA as the governing body then.

Are you going to sail your Nirvana in Bangledesh?
Then does Bangledesh's Nirvana rules being in conflict with the AMYA rules have any bearing?

(Don't worry about it - sail your boat)
Old Jun 12, 2012, 04:36 PM
AhoyBlackHand is offline
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Yeah, I'm in St. Pete, Florida, but we travel to the UK and Western Europe quite a bit. However, given the definitive tone of your response, I guess the best solution is one Nirvana for here, and one for there. Thanks!
Old Jun 12, 2012, 04:37 PM
MMangus is offline
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Personally, I would not boycott sailing in AMYA clubs. I do recognize that the class rules may be different between the two main Nirvana groups and will adjust my boat accordingly to sail in either group.

The class "conflict" is an AMYA issue that the AMYA and the manufacturer needs to resolve. I'm not going to hold my breath until it is fixed. Instead, I'm going sailing.
Old Jun 12, 2012, 04:43 PM
AhoyBlackHand is offline
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Originally Posted by MMangus View Post
Instead, I'm going sailing.
This seems to be the prevailing advice. Think I'm going to head out this evening.
Old Jun 12, 2012, 04:45 PM
breakwater is offline
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Ah, I stand humbly corrected!

In the circumstance that you will actually sail your boat outside of
The USA, it does actually make a difference.
But, I can't give any guidance to the specifics of the Nirvana Class. I know zero about them.
I was speaking more to the fact that if you sail only in the USA, international rule is irrelevant. "House rules prevail."

Either way. Sail your boat, and bring others to the pond with you!
Old Jun 12, 2012, 04:56 PM
AhoyBlackHand is offline
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Originally Posted by breakwater View Post
Either way. Sail your boat, and bring others to the pond with you!
Always! I've got both my son and daughter hooked now.

P.S. That 360 seconds between posts thing is pretty crappy. I'm hoping that goes away after some posting threshold is met.
Old Jun 12, 2012, 05:05 PM
breakwater is offline
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The world moves pretty fast.

Fortunately there is still an off switch- at the pond.

Old Jun 12, 2012, 05:36 PM
flatlandsailor is offline
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That's an interesting blog post by Steve. I think the 'issue' that the Nirvana and RC Laser classes Might have with the AMYA (actually it's likely the other way around) is that the rules are manufacturer controlled. They do this primarily I believe to maintain the classes as very strict one design. However, I don't know if those classes (clearly folks more in the know about the way those rules are structured can shed some light here) allow members of the class to vote on proposed rules changes, or to suggest proposals on rules changes. If they don't, I would think that is what the AMYA has a beef with.

For example with the MM class, being an international class, has an international committee of individuals that are representatives of their offilliated national class associations. Those folks (me included as the USA rep) periodically vote on proposed rules changes that are presented by us as necessary. Now here in the USA class members that are AMYA members in good standing can vote on by-laws changes, elect class officers and suggest proposals for me to take to the int. committee for vote. It sounds a bit convoluted perhaps, but in order to maintain consistent rules across multiple countries and not splinter the 7000+ registered class members worldwide it's the best compromise yet devised. These contingencies satisfied the AMYA's requirements for us.

I don't know for certain why the AMYA would have issues with the Laser or Nirvana classes.
Old Jun 12, 2012, 06:29 PM
MMangus is offline
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From what I can see, the issue is who exact;y is the "Class Secretary". By the Nirvana class rules posted on SailRC and on the AMYA web site, the manufacturer decides who shall be the class secretary. Yet by the AMYA bylaws, the class secretary is elected.

I have no idea why the AMYA accepted the Nirvana class rules as they are written. But it puts the AMYA into an awkward spot. The manufacturer has appointed a new class secretary. That bypasses the AMYA bylaws on electing a class secretary.

So what we have now is two class secretaries: the AMYA class secretary, and the manufacturer's class secretary. Both are perfectly legal by the AYMA bylaws and the AMYA approved Nirvana class rules posted on the AMYA web site. Note that by the manufacturers viewpoint, the only official class secretary is the one the manufacturer has appointed.

Basically, the AMYA really needs to resolve the issue to prevent confusion between existing and future Nirvana owners when it comes to class rules, sail numbers, and so on.

Until then, I'll prepare my Nirvana to legally race in whatever class rules is in effect for a particular regatta. And in between races, I'll enjoy sailing the excellent Nirvana where and whenever I can.
Old Jun 12, 2012, 06:44 PM
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I just sail by the rules of my local club. Unless you plan on sailing in an AMYA Nirvana event, has there ever been one, the local rules should be a good guide to follow.
Old Jun 12, 2012, 07:23 PM
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I thought the only issue was M class where the US had not deferred to the international rules and a US legal boat is not necessarily internationally legal. Mostly due to no depth restriction on the US rules. There is a depth limit for the international rules.
As there are only 4 ISAF recognized international classes M, IOM, A and 10R. Not sure why this is a big issue as other classes are pretty much set up by either an owner group or a regional/local governing body.
Old Jun 12, 2012, 09:13 PM
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I'm so tired of all the politcal crap with this class that I'm ready to tear up my AMYA card and withdraw our club membership too.

The way I read the bylaws is that the residing AMYA secratary can nominate himself to be the need for a vote ...and if he does decide to resign he can appoint his replacement...real democratic setup...

A few AMYA members (myself included) should not be able to speak for thousands of boat owners and change the one design rules. There will be no way you can set your boat up to take advantage of both set of rules. So you will have to decide which you want to follow. Me ...I'll stick with the manufacturer since it is a one design and AMYA will lose out in the end when it comes to my money and support.
Old Jun 12, 2012, 09:33 PM
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Has there been a AMYA sanctioned regatta ? Or is it mostly just club racing ? Seems to be that the AMYA has had hands off the one design racing ODOM. Don't see why it would be any different with the Nirvana.
Old Jun 12, 2012, 10:14 PM
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I am a member of the AMYA and am totally unfamilliar with this as an "AMYA issue". I always understood the rules (not the RRS) for a particular class were defined by the class, not the AMYA. I have been aware of some differences in the US vs the Rest of the World wrt a specific class but I was always under the impression that that was up to those involved with the class to resolve, not the AMYA.

What do I know? (or don't know!)

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