Originally Posted by Brutus1967

what does and does not "mess up helicopters" before you start spreading this unholy nonsense

Brgds, Bert

from the first post:
Set the pitch curve in "Normal" for -2, 0, 3, 3, 3 on your pitch gauge

You are very welcome to try this in real life. Then come back and tell me how it feels when the stick goes numb when you reach midpoint. Then, let's talk about unholy nonsense.

Cheers Bert +1! Bash the troll !!!

Originally Posted by gravityKills

from the first post: Set the pitch curve in "Normal" for -2, 0, 3, 3, 3 on your pitch gauge You are very welcome to try this in real life. Then come back and tell me how it feels when the stick goes numb when you reach midpoint. Then, let's talk about unholy nonsense.

Apparently you were too busy training beginners on your 700 to read that those pitch settings were to get the feel of a constant head speed. Normal mode was for spinning-up and ST1 was for flying. Remarkable how one sees or reads only what they want to see or read.

CaptJac dont bury me in all this @$%*! What about my question in post #299?

Sam

Originally Posted by gravityKills

from the first post:
Set the pitch curve in "Normal" for -2, 0, 3, 3, 3 on your pitch gauge

You are very welcome to try this in real life. Then come back and tell me how it feels when the stick goes numb when you reach midpoint. Then, let's talk about unholy nonsense.

And this is what he wrote immediately after this quote of yours:

First Flight test: Spin up in "Normal" - bring up your collective stick to about 25% (this will spool up your engine but not take off).

Then he continues: "switch to Idle 1 and continue on the throttle"

He also described/advised which curve to program for Idle-1...

But Ah.... you are so knowledgeable, that you did obviously NOT recognize this set-up as a test-set-up that I allready use for as long as programmable transmitters exist (that is slightly over 20 years now as far as I'm concerned, but I was flying mechanical set-ups ten years before that....) in order to test my mechanics, set up blade-tracking, adjust multiblade rotors (yes, I fly multiblades without any HH-gyro, FBL or other electronic nonsense.... can you?). .

So, you are very welcome to try and explain something to me that I would not yet have come across in the approx 30 years of RC helicopter flying that I have behind me....
But somehow I get the feeling, YOU are the one not knowing what it is all about....
You only know about the latest flashy helicopters with lots of power and never mind what curve because you spend literally not a second flying. Instead you are busy tossing a helicopter through the air in a way that is NOT flying but just converting Joules to turbulence..... And everything you lack in set-up knowledge, theoretical knowledge or otherwise common sense, you mask with High Power drives, FBL electronics and the fastest digital servo's to make those FBL systems work....

And that is exactly what CaptJack is trying to teach people: that there is another way of flying, where the pilot himself is flying the machine....
Brgds, Bert

Originally Posted by Santley

CaptJac dont bury me in all this @$%*! What about my question in post #299?

I have nothing but respect for the words and the videos John Salt has produced. His approach is methodical and very well presented. In fact, I have used some of his videos to refine some of my own skills and introduced some of his methodologies in my Phoenix Simulator Flight School. Hats off to Mr. Salt - he is doing an outstanding job to help beginners.

Just wanted to note your thread, and advice is on target, and absoultely correct.
Thanks for sharing.

putting un-flyable settings into your transmitter is a bad idea.
You get distracted. You get confused. You panic. You crash.

>> You only know about the latest flashy helicopters
I know my way about a Raptor, if that's what you mean.

Hello all people here !

I've read this very interesting topic from the beginning, and to contribute to a little more relaxed atmosphere here (speaking from the last few messages ) I will give you my beginner-settings.
For a little background : I'm 51, flying helis since may 2012 (the first was an Esky Lama V4, yeaahhh !).
You can call me a beginner !
Since July 2012 I fly a 4 channel FP heli (MJX F45) and since the beginning of 2013 I fly with 2 CP helis.
The first is a Walkera Master CP (250 size), a rather docile flybarless with 6 axis gyro, and the second is a Walkera V450D03, also a docile FBL with 6 axis gyro too. I only begun to fly the 450 after more then 70 flights with the 250, to discover that the 450 is more easy to fly (more stability, better visibility) !
The jump from FP to CP was not simple (2 crashs in the 4 first flights ), but now, after more then 90 flights, I have lots of fun and didn't crash the last 50 flights .
My skills are now enough to take nice banked turns, stall turns, eights, but there is still a long way to go (this makes this hobby so interesting )
Next to come will be loopings and rolls, but only after more practice, also on the sim.

I'm not attracted by the sirens of 3D (maybe in one or two years, never say never), and it was clear for me, even before flying a CP heli the first time, that a pitch curve of -12° > 0° > +12° would be useless and counterproductive at the beginning.
I have just to imagine the FP-flyer reflex of going to 0% throttle in case of panic on a CP heli with -12° pitch, mmhhhh, that's not good !

I began with a linear pitch curve from -2° to +10° on the master CP, same curve in NORM mode and stunt mode.
For the throttle (my transmitter has 7-point curves) my curves are :
NORM : 0%-35%-70%-70%-70%-70%-70%
STUNT : 70%-70%-70%-70%-70%-70%-70%

And last, I fly with 70% DR on aileron and elevator.

With this settings I'm able to gently spool up the heli in NORM mode, and to switch to STUNT mode at about 50% throttle position (the heli becomes light on the skids) even before taking of.
After about 15 flights and been more accustomed to CP-heli flying, I found that the pitch curve was a little too tame, and I set it from -4° to +12°, to have a better reactivity on throttle input.
These are my settings for now, and I am happy with them.
Maybe the day I wil do loops and rolls, I will go to -5° or -6° for the beginning of the pitch curve, it will depend on how the helis will behave.

I want in no way say that my settings are the best possible, it's just to share what is fine for me.

Thank you CaptJac for this thread !

Regards, Roland

Originally Posted by CaptJac

First - and most importantly - get rid of all that negative pitch. -2 degrees (-2°) is all you need in the beginning - and this is to insure you can get back down on the ground and glue you to the ground if there is any wind. Someday you may want to do some inverted flying - but there is an awful lot of non-inverted flying you will want to learn first. An ideal pitch-curve for beginners is -2 ° (low stick) +3° (center stick) and +8° (high stick). This will cause your heli to get light on the skids slightly above center stick. But what about the throttle curve? Here is where you want to start taking notes. The throttle should be independent of the pitch once you spin up. How you do that? Your transmitter can switch flight-modes (The DX7 uses "Normal" -"ST1"- "ST2") and each of these flight-modes has its own throttle-curve and pitch-curve. Using the DX7 for this example - set the throttle curve in "Nomal" for 0-25-80-80-80. This will spin up your engine and hold about an 80% head speed above the 1/4 stick position. Set the throttle curve in "ST1" for 0-80-80-80-80 . This will hold a constant head speed constant in all stick positions except all the way down. Now here's where it gets slick with the stick. Set the pitch curve in "Normal" for -2, 0, 3, 3, 3 on your pitch gauge. Note: The numbers in the DX7 are not degrees - they are percentage - you need a pitch gauge to convert the numbers into degrees. Set the pitch curve in "ST1" the same way except the last two points on the curve will be 5° and 8°. Your pitch curve will be -2, 0, 3, 5, 8. "Normal" flight-mode will be for spinning up and spinning down - "ST1" will be for flying.

captJac

captJac, thanks for putting something out there besides the standard -12,-6,0,6, 12 3D setup. I didnt't come across something similar until I visited the competition forums at RunRyder where they use normal mode for the portion of the hovering manuevers and others use it for scale flying.

I'm a beginner also but for me, normal mode will be general flight/scale mode. I running with -3, 0, 3, 6, 9 pitch setup so I hover slight above mid stick. IU1/ST1 will be for general aerobatics when I get there.

One comment on the "Set the throttle curve in "ST1" for 0-80-80-80-80 . This will hold a constant head speed constant". Having done a good bit on adapting the Real Flight aircraft with the pitch curves I want as well as a bunch of Interent research on the matter, I noticed that 0-80-80-80-80 does NOT provide a constant headspeed because the blade pitch at mid stick is lower so your headspeed could be up to several 100 rpms higher than at full pitch depending on your pitch setups. You're talking 3 degree pitch at midstick versus 8 degree pitch at full stick with the setting you recommended.

I confirmed this against my Trex 500 ESP manual plus the flight sim because if I went with a 100 flat curve as I see many recommend for a 3D setup without a governor, I would exceed the structure limit of my heli at midstick but not at full pitch. Mid stick at 0 pitch, headspeed would be 2890, at full stick at 12 pitch, 2650 on a fresh battery. Supposedly 2650 is the limit for my helicopter. So a flat throttle curve does not provide a constant head speed. Maybe something more like 0-65-70-75-80 would be closer to a constant head speed within several 10s of rpm for the setup you recommend.

Thanks again for starting this thread. Lets me know I was going in the right direction with other sources that I read.

Originally Posted by WEFlyer

captJac, thanks for putting something out there besides the standard -12,-6,0,6, 12 3D setup. I didnt't come across something similar until I visited the competition forums at RunRyder where they use normal mode for the portion of the hovering manuevers and others use it for scale flying.

I'm a beginner also but for me, normal mode will be general flight/scale mode. I running with -3, 0, 3, 6, 9 pitch setup so I hover slight above mid stick. IU1/ST1 will be for general aerobatics when I get there.

One comment on the "Set the throttle curve in "ST1" for 0-80-80-80-80 . This will hold a constant head speed constant". Having done a good bit on adapting the Real Flight aircraft with the pitch curves I want as well as a bunch of Interent research on the matter, I noticed that 0-80-80-80-80 does NOT provide a constant headspeed because the blade pitch at mid stick is lower so your headspeed could be up to several 100 rpms higher than at full pitch depending on your pitch setups. You're talking 3 degree pitch at midstick versus 8 degree pitch at full stick with the setting you recommended.

I confirmed this against my Trex 500 ESP manual plus the flight sim because if I went with a 100 flat curve as I see many recommend for a 3D setup without a governor, I would exceed the structure limit of my heli at midstick but not at full pitch. Mid stick at 0 pitch, headspeed would be 2890, at full stick at 12 pitch, 2650 on a fresh battery. Supposedly 2650 is the limit for my helicopter. So a flat throttle curve does not provide a constant head speed. Maybe something more like 0-65-70-75-80 would be closer to a constant head speed within several 10s of rpm for the setup you recommend.

Thanks again for starting this thread. Lets me know I was going in the right direction with other sources that I read.

You guys are killing me. In a nice way but nevertheless. Here is why : The article goes on to use the DX 7 as stated"" Using the DX7 for this example - set the throttle curve in "Normal" for 0-25-80-80-80. This will spin up your engine and hold about an 80% head speed above the 1/4 stick position. Set the throttle curve in "ST1" for 0-80-80-80-80 . This will hold a constant head speed constant in all stick positions except all the way down. Now here's where it gets slick with the stick. Set the pitch curve in "Normal" for -2, 0, 3, 3, 3 on your pitch gauge. Note: The numbers in the DX7 are not degrees - they are percentage - you need a pitch gauge to convert the numbers into degrees. Set the pitch curve in "ST1" the same way except the last two points on the curve will be 5° and 8°. Your pitch curve will be -2, 0, 3, 5, 8. "Normal" flight-mode will be for spinning up and spinning down - "ST1" will be for flying" .
So PLEASE - I do not have a pitch gauge and I use a DEVO 7 and DEVO 7E... What are those degrees translate into (percentages) .?? Anybody??

Originally Posted by HPCR

I do not have a pitch gauge and I use a DEVO 7 and DEVO 7E... What are those degrees translate into (percentages) .?? Anybody??

You NEED a pitch-gauge. There is no way to translate the numbers in your transmitter to degrees because the degrees are dependent on the mechanical setup of your heli - and EVERY heli is slightly different. You NEED a pitch-gauge. The good news is - they are cheap. They are basically just a protractor and you could make one if you good with scissors and cutting out card-board.

Originally Posted by CaptJac

You NEED a pitch-gauge. There is no way to translate the numbers in your transmitter to degrees because the degrees are dependent on the mechanical setup of your heli - and EVERY heli is slightly different. You NEED a pitch-gauge. The good news is - they are cheap. They are basically just a protractor and you could make one if you good with scissors and cutting out card-board.

I have one on the way, splashing out big time. WOW Hobbies likes me ..a...lot!! See it is not the pitch gauge as such . The gauge needs to lay on a table , that table needs to have a really good lighting ... so I need some more space. Darn, the garage is full up with other toys. Need to build another room . Total cost of project 50,000 dollars . Or otherwise stated pitch gauge cost = 50,000 dollars .

Hi CapJac

Got a bit of a puzzle regarding throttle curves. After using your ideas very successfully on a range of models, I find I have made a fundamental change from what you recommend.
I use a flat throttle curve, generally 80,80,80,80,80.
I was reading the posts from HPCR and WEFlyer in which they mention 0,80,80,80,80 so I went back and checked and, sure enough, that's what you recommend in your first post.
I have found a flat curve (a what?) to be ideal for me, but I was just wondering if there is any advantage in having low setting at 0.
Your thoughts?

BL

I got a lot of feedback on this question and I must say I was torn in 2 directions on the throttle curve. The 80-80-80-80-80 means you HAVE to hit the throttle-hold switch if you panic and if you are conditioned to slam the thottle stick down then the heli does a death dance by the time you find the throttle-hold switch. Unfortunately - most of us are conditioned to the slam-the-throttle-down reflex because most of us started with fixed pitch - including myself. So the trade-off is the 0-80-80-80-80 throttle curve where the 0 is there - in case you panic and you "forget" there is a throttle-hold switch. It does degrade the constant-head speed slightly when you flying - especially if there is wind and you have to constantly compensate for translational lift but until you are conditioned to hit throttle-hold instead of slamming the throttle down - it is probably an acceptable trade-off. I use both to try to recondition that reflex - but the brain doesn't listen very well when it freezes.