"Britkit" Build Off April 2012 - 31/12/2012 - Page 5 - RC Groups
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May 15, 2012, 09:38 AM
Sic itur ad Astra
sparks59's Avatar
Hi Guys,
I'm so undecided about what to build this time. Still stretched at work so the Frog Centurion will have to wait. Here is what is under consideration at the moment; I hope George will let me know if any of these doesnt qualify for any reason..
Veron - Coupe / Luscombe Sedan / Chipmunk / Chiltern DW1 / Comper Swift
or KK Eaglet or Chipmunk

I don't recall ever building a Veron in my youth, so that is something of an attraction.

The Coupe looks to be a 'Happy' little plane, and should be simple to build as a small Electric flyer, maybe even RE control.

Any thoughts chaps?

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May 15, 2012, 09:56 AM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
Sundancer's Avatar
Those all sound OK to me Sparks. Veron kits were always very nice, and of course Phil Smith who designed practically all of them was a very talented designer and modeller. As an alternative to the KK Eaglet have a look at the Veron Sentinel. Or if you wanted to try a different but fairly simple rubber to electric R/C conversion, what about the Mercury Mentor, should be a great performer.
May 15, 2012, 11:27 PM
Visitor from Reality
I know the Chilton DW1 fairly well - designed a 54" version of the type way back in England. Would suggest that even with a fair chunk of dihedral, it could be dodgy as a rudder/ele steered model - the fuselage is very deep for such a small aircraft and that could work against the dihedral in both stability and control response.

Thanks to those very pointy wing tips, mine had virtually no down-going aileron throw on its scale-size ailerons. Even so, it controlled and handled very well and I had to shift the CG aft of my first calculated position to get her to spin.

Great thing about the DW1 - all it needs for a dummy engine effect is the exhaust pipes on the cowl side!

Hope that helps

May 16, 2012, 07:42 AM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
Sundancer's Avatar
Just added SAslinky's Bee Bug and the build log url for RFJ's Veron Phoenix - he says it won't be a "Billy Whizz" build, but knowing Ray I would keep an eye on it!

We now have 11 declared entries and four build logs started; KKPhantom is setting the pace with his Gipsy which is loking good. Come on guys, with all those models to choose from I am hoping to beat the Frog build off's 14 completed models, especially with loads more time available.

Dereck, Sparks - any closer to making your minds up yet?
May 24, 2012, 07:53 AM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
Sundancer's Avatar
brokenenglish has started the build thread for his Slicker, should be particularly interesting as he is building from an early genuine kit.

We now have six build threads running, but could do with a few more entries - onl;y eleven so far, I was hoping to beat the Frog Build Off figure of eighteen.

Come on guys, plenty of models to choose from, how about having a go? These build offs are great for inspiring you to not only start, but finish a project!
May 24, 2012, 07:04 PM
Registered User
Warren B's Avatar
I'll be joining, but maybe after the OIly Hand Weekend at Cowra (great event depsite the 10 hour drive each way for me), end Aug, as I need to make a Dominator (with Oliie MkIII) for some CL silliness.

I need to make a choice, my thinking so far:
KK Outlaw with Comp Special.
KK Southerner with Mills 2.4
Performance Kits Apex with Frog Vibramatic.
Frog Jackdaw with Frog 3.49
Toyed with the idea of a Premier Lion with ETA 5, but I probably don't have time for that one.

Any opinions good/bad flying experinces?
May 25, 2012, 01:35 AM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
Sundancer's Avatar
Glad to hear you will be in!

I think any of the models you list would be excellent choices, but I have personal experience of only two. In my youthful sport flying days in the fifties the Outlaw (along with the Bandit) was a firm favourite with my brother-in-law and me. We had several, all powered by a Frog 150 and without exception they were delightful performers, sort of high performance sport fliers. We also had a Southerner which looked great and flew well, but it wasn't such a practical machine in our knock-about environment as the Outlaw. I have also seen examples of the Apex and Jackdaw perform and they look to be excellent designs, using the 3.49 in the Jackdaw would be very authentic (I presume you have seen Jackdaw designer Eric Walpole's interesting piece on www.houseoffrog.co.uk which includes photos of the original Jackdaw).

Whichever you decide on I look forward to following your build. Good luck with the Dominator and the roundy-roundy stuff - don't get dizzy; last time I tried C/L after not having flown it for thirty-five years I fell over after ten laps!
May 25, 2012, 03:16 AM
Registered User
Warren B's Avatar
Thanks for the info George.

Yes I saw the Eric Walpole article, excellent stuff.

I rather like the idea of matching the plane with correct period diesel, but I do have some really nice Frog 150's so maybe the Outlaw with a 150 or the 1.49 Vibramatic might be the way to go.
How did the balance go? Did you have to extend the nose with a 150 in place of the heavy ED lump?

Flew CL at Cowra last year for the first time in a decade or two, didn't fall over, but didn't cover myself in glory either
Also flew my first ever actual FF (i've had a sheletered life of CL then RC) a Dart powered Ebenezer.
Search "Cowra Oily Hand" on youtube for some old fart action.
Last edited by Warren B; May 25, 2012 at 03:21 AM.
May 25, 2012, 04:36 AM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
Sundancer's Avatar
I don't recall us having any CG issues with the Frog 150 Outlaws Warren, and we certainly didn't extend the nose, they were entirely "as per" (wouldn't have dared to tamper with Bill Dean's work in those days, he was held in some awe). If you keep the servos and Rx battery well forward I wouldn't expect you to have any problems, I think they must have been nose heavy with the ED.

Envious to hear you have nice 150s, a lovely engine. The one that we had at the time of the Outlaws was a "silver onion head" one, later we had an outstanding "blue onion head" 150R and later still a blue head 150R with the newer head shape (same as the 100), all excellent motors but the onion head 150R was one of those you get now and again which is just perfect. Later we also had a couple of Vipers which we used in 1/2A team race and combat, wonderful motors and much under-rated. Not quite as quick as an Ollie Cub in team race, but terrific range and exemplary handling.
May 25, 2012, 05:49 AM
Registered User
Warren B's Avatar
I share your respect for the cheap and cheerful Frogs, I have quite a few.
My silver 150 onion head is quite a bit slower than a fairly rough blue type R, but my best are a pair of later blue heads (one ex Boddo).
I do have a Viper but I doubt that is in keeping with the Outlaw character.

Just checked the mounting holes, of course all the 150's, 149's and 100's are the same, but they also appear to be identical to my ED Furies and a Super Fury.
So with one engine plate I should be able to give quite a few nice old things and airing.

Just checked, the Viper has the same bolt spacing too!!
I'll have to think up some servo operated fule shut-off.
Last edited by Warren B; May 25, 2012 at 05:59 AM.
May 25, 2012, 10:57 AM
Visitor from Reality
Ran into a wall with my first choice - the Junior 60, which I've wanted one of since I was a kid and could barely afford to press my nose on the LHS window to look at the kit. The snag was boringly practical - it would be a pain to build a 60" wing and matching fus in my present workshop, plus getting it from condo to garage would be another pain.

Then what may be a solution popped up! I was idly contemplated an IMAA legal scale model at 4/5th full size, when a magazine correspondent of mine sent me a plan of a 48" version. The plan was published as a freeby in Aeromodeller back in 1987 - the year I met my wife, which perhaps explains how come I missed it! Comparing it to the 'full scale' version, it looks pretty much like a direct scale down of the real thing.

Big question - is it 'In' for this build-off?

Hope so - I have a wizzyround motor that'll do nicely, plus all the other electronic widgets and gadgets. Aim would be a realistic looking version - Litespan or Solartex covered, as I can't use smelly finishes in this place, perhaps even a dummy 'engine' sticking up out of the cowl, RC gear well hidden out of sight below the cockpit windows.


May 25, 2012, 11:18 AM
Registered User
RFJ's Avatar

Scaling up, down or sideways is fine. My x3 Scamp did OK in the Frog buildathon

I see that when the Junior 60 kit was discontinued in 1961 it was priced at 2-18-0 with the replacement Super 60 at 4-17-6. Big money for a kid in those days.

Get building.........

May 25, 2012, 01:44 PM
Visitor from Reality
Hi Ray
Big money indeed, to a kid on a half-crown a week pocket money...

Okay, got to fit it around a half-built new design, but will try to get in the build-off parameters. But will try, honest.

FWIW - this is the first model I've built off someone else's plan in I can't remember when. Have the odd kit in the list now and again, but even they're getting rarer. Snag is, my custom design/build service looks at another's plan and mutters something on the lines of 'Whyineck did the ******** do it that way?

For a Junior Junior 60 (JJ60???), I must make an exception.

Anyone got any thoughts, idle or otherwise, on the undercambered wing. I must have made one at some point, but it was well before I took up RC - which means it likely didn't ever get finished, let alone fly! This plan looks to have a true scale wing section, best I can figure comparing it to the various J60 plans I've seen of late.

May 25, 2012, 01:50 PM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
Sundancer's Avatar
Yep Dereck, as Ray says scale up (or down) is fine - in fact most of the models in gthe Frog build off were scaled up or down. (BTW Ray, memory going there - the Scamp was 5x not 3x!)

I had a 24 inch (2/5th) miniature version of the J60 built directly over a photocopy of a reduced scale plan for F/F with a KP01 electric unit. The structure was scaled down exactly, even to the two piece wing, and it flew beautifully, it's lurking behind my 26" Pushy Kitten in the picture which is the only one I have of it, it was one of the many models I sold when moving to France; wish I had kept it now, radio is light enough to fit in it and with a little brushless in place of the KP........ah well, I've still got the plan!

So, get cracking Dereck, looking forward to seeing the build log.
May 25, 2012, 07:31 PM
Visitor from Reality
Pretty pair of models - love the colour scheme(s). Pushycat is another I've long fancied - even have the plan.

Moving any distance will do it to your fleet. I got more models from England to the US than I did from DC to Chicago. It was easier to sell or donate than risk them in the hands of movers 'over here'...


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