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Old May 01, 2012, 10:22 AM
chrisgood is offline
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Radio Lockouts at SEFF 2012


I don't want to put blame on any one manufacturer or all the great flyers at SEFF, but I got scared after witnessing several lockouts (including two lockouts for me) and realizing what could have happened if the planes had hit someone. I don't know if it was one particular radio system, or just the fact that there were lots of radios on at any time. I have been flying DSM2 for a couple years with no problems and DSMX for less than year with no problems at my home flying field in northern Maryland, but the shear numbers of radios on at any time at SEFF had to contribute to the problems.

I would like to get everyone's input on your radio system, if you had any radio problems or not, and how much you flew at SEFF to experience what you experienced. Be honest; if you made a mistake a crashed on your own, please don't include that. If you know that you had no response to commands, that is a lockout. Highlite the equipment where you had problems. I would like to narrow down if any equipment had more problems than other.

I will start it out (in the order I flew):

Spectrum DX8, HobbyKing micro 6ch DSM2 receiver - 3 flights on Saturday/Sunday with foamy VTOL - no problems

Spectrum DX8, HobbyKing 6ch orange DSM2 receiver w/ satellite - one flight on Saturday with 13' flying wing - no problem

Spectrum DX7, HobbyKing 6ch orange DSM2 receivers - many flights on two 2-meter flying wings on Saturday - no problems

Spectrum DX8, HobbyKing 6ch orange DSM2 receiver w/ satellite - one flight on 11' flying wing on Saturday - solid lockout turning from base to upwind - no control for > 8 seconds - AV went smack right in front of the pits. This was a large plane with a .60 size outrunner; I am very thankful no one was hurt.

After having this lockout and talking to several people who had seen or had similar experiences, I swapped in a DSMX receiver into my large night flyer before I flew it:

Spectrum DX8, AR6100 DSMX receiver - a few flights on Saturday night on large night flyer - no problems

Spectrum DX7, HobbyKing 6ch orange DSM2 receiver (no case), small night flyer foamy Biplane - two flights Saturday night, on second flight I had one lockout approx 4 seconds long - AV went smack at my feet. Very light plane, minor damage.

Thank you,
Chris
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Old May 01, 2012, 10:33 AM
pecanpatch is offline
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Other than for the paintball planes.... I wouldnt use a Hobby king reciever in anything I own at SEFF.

That being said all 15 paintball planes had Hobbyking recievers in them and not a single problem.

My wing went down in Saturdays combat match ,but it appears to be an ESC issue.
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Old May 01, 2012, 10:36 AM
Mike Freas is offline
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All of my son's planes flew on DSM2 without any issue during the event including combat. His combat bird has an AR6000 RX. I believe there were 69 pilots on Sat for this.

All of my aircraft fly a HiTech A9. No issues.
Old May 01, 2012, 10:44 AM
bildo baggins is offline
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Chillin till SEFF
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Originally Posted by Mike Freas View Post
All of my aircraft fly a HiTech A9. No issues.
😃
Kewl
Old May 01, 2012, 11:04 AM
HansAuf is offline
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Pass me some zip-ties!
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I flew with the following and had no issues.
DX7 with AR7000's and AR6100/10's.
Aurora 9 with Optima 6 and 7
Futaba 8FJ with R6203SB's
Old May 01, 2012, 11:13 AM
bigmoebbq is offline
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Well I had a major lock out Thursday. Cost me a 78 Inch Extreme Flight plane. Running dsmx on radio and receiver.
Old May 01, 2012, 11:46 AM
KevinW (Qwin) is offline
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Eschew obfuscation
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I flew 4 plane setups for a total of about a dozen times and the only lockout I had was in a combat round with 69 other folks within 100' of me.
I lost if for maybe 2 seconds (felt like 10) but I was running the cheapest Orange recvr I could find.....in retrospect, not such a good idea.
No crash, just 2 seconds of breath holding.
Everything else was solid as usual..(including other combat rounds)

Spektrum DSXM (or DSM2 in the case of the Orange)
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Old May 01, 2012, 11:49 AM
FiremanBill is offline
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aka Ranger Bill
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0 lockouts for me. Mostly DSMX with one or two DSM2 Receivers in there somewhere, and whatever is in the Parkzone Super Cub I got on floats. Never really checked it, just bound it when I bought it (used) and flew it.
Old May 01, 2012, 11:57 AM
dag214 is offline
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I had over 14 flights on my 197" Emmaselle on DSM2 with a JR Powerbox with 4 satellite RX's. Zero holds, and I only had a very few frames losses.

DAG
Old May 01, 2012, 12:09 PM
Moonbeam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisgood View Post
I don't want to put blame on any one manufacturer or all the great flyers at SEFF, but I got scared after witnessing several lockouts (including two lockouts for me) and realizing what could have happened if the planes had hit someone. I don't know if it was one particular radio system, or just the fact that there were lots of radios on at any time. I have been flying DSM2 for a couple years with no problems and DSMX for less than year with no problems at my home flying field in northern Maryland, but the shear numbers of radios on at any time at SEFF had to contribute to the problems.

I would like to get everyone's input on your radio system, if you had any radio problems or not, and how much you flew at SEFF to experience what you experienced. Be honest; if you made a mistake a crashed on your own, please don't include that. If you know that you had no response to commands, that is a lockout. Highlite the equipment where you had problems. I would like to narrow down if any equipment had more problems than other.

I will start it out (in the order I flew):

Spectrum DX8, HobbyKing micro 6ch DSM2 receiver - 3 flights on Saturday/Sunday with foamy VTOL - no problems

Spectrum DX8, HobbyKing 6ch orange DSM2 receiver w/ satellite - one flight on Saturday with 13' flying wing - no problem

Spectrum DX7, HobbyKing 6ch orange DSM2 receivers - many flights on two 2-meter flying wings on Saturday - no problems

Spectrum DX8, HobbyKing 6ch orange DSM2 receiver w/ satellite - one flight on 11' flying wing on Saturday - solid lockout turning from base to upwind - no control for > 8 seconds - AV went smack right in front of the pits. This was a large plane with a .60 size outrunner; I am very thankful no one was hurt.

After having this lockout and talking to several people who had seen or had similar experiences, I swapped in a DSMX receiver into my large night flyer before I flew it:

Spectrum DX8, AR6100 DSMX receiver - a few flights on Saturday night on large night flyer - no problems

Spectrum DX7, HobbyKing 6ch orange DSM2 receiver (no case), small night flyer foamy Biplane - two flights Saturday night, on second flight I had one lockout approx 4 seconds long - AV went smack at my feet. Very light plane, minor damage.

Thank you,
Chris
I've been using the exact same Spektrum DX7 Tx for the past 4 years, and I'm just now replacing some of the Rxs I've had that long. Everything still works perfectly fine.

Out of the 6 lockouts I've had in 4 years.... 4 of them were caused by cheap ESCs. Two were caused by old Rx's that needed updating. 3 of the 6 were recovered in flight by cycling the throttle, and the plane was saved.

Here's the skinny: Old Rx's be it Spektrum AR type or Futaba FAST type etc., need to be updated from time to time. As I said in another thread, 2.4gHz is not a perfect be all-end all solution to glitches and lock outs. Like everything, it still has limits and is always being developed and progressed. Just like you PC, printer, automobile... you don't just buy it, use it, and it works perfectly forever. You WILL have to do maintenance, you WILL have to replace parts if not the whole thing. It would be foolish to think anything otherwise of ANY 2.4gHz system. It really is just plain old common sense.

What does get me is how people brag that they got a $10 Rx from China that is 2.4gHz and how they saved "so much money", yet when the plane crashes they blame their Spektrum (or other brandname), Tx as the problem.

Face the facts folks: You have a $200 plane, $180 Tx, and you put in a $14 ESC, $10 Rx, and $3 servos in it...... you tell me what the best suspect is..... "you get what you pay for!"

This year at SEFF I had one lockout (easily recovered by simply cycling the throttle), on a VERY old Rx. The rest of the people at SEFF I talked to were using cheap knock-off Rx's when their planes went in. It ain't rocket science. If it's cheap and from a company few have heard of.... be cautious.

Also, I have a friend and fellow club member who recently crashed is brand new giant 3D plane. He put in fairly cheap gear, and NO UBEC.... and this is a GIANT 3D plane! Guess what he blamed as the cause? His Spektrum Tx and Rx. "I'm going to Futaba!" Yeah.... lets not blame the pilot & builder for putting in crappy side components that also effect how a plane functions, lets go straight to the high end stuff that folks like me who put in good ESCs and servos (and don't have issues with those set ups), and blame it.

"My $200K Ferrari crashed into the median wall when my $30 Chinese tires blew out!! Damn Ferrari!!!"
Last edited by Moonbeam; May 01, 2012 at 12:16 PM.
Old May 01, 2012, 12:14 PM
pecanpatch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbeam View Post
What does get me is how people brag that they got a $10 Rx from China that is 2.4gHz and how they saved "so much money", yet when the plane crashes they blame their Spektrum (or other brandname), Tx as the problem.

Face the facts folks: You have a $200 plane, $180 Tx, and you put in a $14 ESC, $10 Rx, and $3 servos in it...... you tell me what the best suspect is..... "you get what you pay for!"
Bravo!
Most of my buds only get LiPos from HK these days.
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Old May 01, 2012, 12:20 PM
Moonbeam is offline
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Lipos play a big part, but you can get away with a $17 lipo better tha you can a $10 Orange or Blue (which I guy told me killed his F-4 at SEFF) Rx.

I use Spektrum DX7 Tx, and AR Rx's, and I use good ESCs & servos. My lipos are mid grade, and the whole set up for each plane has been great. That's why over half my fleet has 100+ flights per plane. One had 107 before it ever crashed, and another had 127. Bet none of these Orange Rx 2.4gHz guys can claim that.

(Both those planes had AR Rxs in them. The 107 flight P-51 was using an AR500.... remember how everyone knocked them as being junk? It died from a failed elevator servo, HS-82 MG but very old. The 127 flt. P-47 has an AR7600, Hobbywing Pentium ESC with UBEC. It crashed from a worn out motor. Not a single glitch on either of those planes.)
Last edited by Moonbeam; May 01, 2012 at 12:27 PM.
Old May 01, 2012, 12:24 PM
Moonbeam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmoebbq View Post
Well I had a major lock out Thursday. Cost me a 78 Inch Extreme Flight plane. Running dsmx on radio and receiver.
Did you use a UBEC? And what ESC and servos did you have?
Old May 01, 2012, 01:17 PM
dag214 is offline
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Rock On- Damon Atwood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbeam View Post
I've been using the exact same Spektrum DX7 Tx for the past 4 years, and I'm just now replacing some of the Rxs I've had that long. Everything still works perfectly fine.

Out of the 6 lockouts I've had in 4 years.... 4 of them were caused by cheap ESCs. Two were caused by old Rx's that needed updating. 3 of the 6 were recovered in flight by cycling the throttle, and the plane was saved.

Here's the skinny: Old Rx's be it Spektrum AR type or Futaba FAST type etc., need to be updated from time to time. As I said in another thread, 2.4gHz is not a perfect be all-end all solution to glitches and lock outs. Like everything, it still has limits and is always being developed and progressed. Just like you PC, printer, automobile... you don't just buy it, use it, and it works perfectly forever. You WILL have to do maintenance, you WILL have to replace parts if not the whole thing. It would be foolish to think anything otherwise of ANY 2.4gHz system. It really is just plain old common sense.

What does get me is how people brag that they got a $10 Rx from China that is 2.4gHz and how they saved "so much money", yet when the plane crashes they blame their Spektrum (or other brandname), Tx as the problem.

Face the facts folks: You have a $200 plane, $180 Tx, and you put in a $14 ESC, $10 Rx, and $3 servos in it...... you tell me what the best suspect is..... "you get what you pay for!"

This year at SEFF I had one lockout (easily recovered by simply cycling the throttle), on a VERY old Rx. The rest of the people at SEFF I talked to were using cheap knock-off Rx's when their planes went in. It ain't rocket science. If it's cheap and from a company few have heard of.... be cautious.

Also, I have a friend and fellow club member who recently crashed is brand new giant 3D plane. He put in fairly cheap gear, and NO UBEC.... and this is a GIANT 3D plane! Guess what he blamed as the cause? His Spektrum Tx and Rx. "I'm going to Futaba!" Yeah.... lets not blame the pilot & builder for putting in crappy side components that also effect how a plane functions, lets go straight to the high end stuff that folks like me who put in good ESCs and servos (and don't have issues with those set ups), and blame it.

"My $200K Ferrari crashed into the median wall when my $30 Chinese tires blew out!! Damn Ferrari!!!"
I have tears in my eyes, I would vote for you in November.....

Spot on!!!!!

DAG
Old May 01, 2012, 01:36 PM
foam and tape is online now
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yes, you can't be so quick to blame the radio gear, I bet half of all these crashes were associated to faulty receiver power setups, I even noticed this with one of my foamies, as the flap servos were stalled as they had reached max travel limits and were drawing more than the BEC could supply. Luckly my plane decided to spazz out on the ground for 5 seconds trying to reconnect with my Aurora 9 every time I shook the rest of the controls.

the only real "over shadowing" for me was with my PZ t-28 with UPGRADED ESC/BEC I lost it for 3seconds while coming in behind the horizon guys, (I was standing behind about 7 transmitters) it was running an AR6100 version DSM2 so I was sorta asking for it


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