Competitive Altitude Limited Soaring on a Budget - Page 6 - RC Groups
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Feb 13, 2013, 09:17 PM
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Jebera's Avatar
Originally Posted by sandist

Firstly, my apologies to anyone who is awaiting a flight report.
I have been held up on two fronts, one,our weather has been very poor and whilst I dont mind flying on snow , flying in snow is different, if it hasn't been snowing it has been wet or windy.
Secondly, due to a piece of bad luck my Graupner MC 24 Tx is now dead. The costs of repair exceed the value of the TX.:
Decision time, what do I buy? new or second hand ?

I like Graupner and JR gear, I have no knowledge of the programming of Futaba and I have had too many issues with my old Multiplex.
No one round here uses Sanwa/Airtronics but I believe it is good from all I have read.
I will go off and do my arithmetic and see what I can come up with.
So much for soaring on a budget !!!!!!


Sorry for your bad luck.
Regarding the TX, I would recommend the new Graupner MX20, that's the best price x features compromise you'll find, I'm veryhappy with mine.


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Feb 13, 2013, 09:31 PM
Flying = Falling (Slowly)
dharban's Avatar
When considering ALES on a budget, remember that planes, motors, batteries and such come and go -- every plane dies.

But two things that endure over a longer life cycle -- with any luck -- are transmitters and battery chargers.

Stretching a bit on those purchases and giving yourself room to grow will usually pay dividends.

Happy Landings,

Feb 17, 2013, 10:31 AM
Registered User
Flying at last, had to use my superannuated Multiplex 3030,
changed the motor set up (105 gms ) Mega 16/15/3 Reisenaeur 5:1 gearbox 14 x 8 prop
reached 175 m in 15 seconds, certainly brisk enough for me.

The cg is at 115mm back from the L.E. still very safe for an Aspire wing.
It handled a mildly turbulent day very well and I think that I can take the cg back to circa 120 mm but I must not sacrifice ability to come back in windy conditions.
The other planes about today were a 3.6 m Pulsar and one of my Buzrd's , the Aspire certainly coped as well if not better than them.

We also maidened a Graphite wing on a Buzrd's pod/fus set up and a significant improvement was noted.
I am sure these improvements are coming from the weight savings,particularly at the tail.
The models are just sweeter to fly than the original gliders.
Feb 19, 2013, 05:21 PM
Registered User
Well, I have made up my mind and ordered a Graupner MC 20.
It seems to have enough capability to keep me going for the rest of my time flying.
I have also ordered a vario to go with it.
Wish me luck
Feb 20, 2013, 04:05 AM
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Graham 65's Avatar
Good luck may be needed, I had heard on rcg that Graupner were in bankruptcy trouble, will any rxs be available in future?, support?, guarantee?
Feb 21, 2013, 06:03 PM
Registered User
Ouch !
Mar 02, 2013, 03:56 PM
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Well, I finally managed to fly the Ava-winged version of the model described in post #65.
The weather was far from ideal for this model (and me!) with a lightish(6-7 mph) but bitingly cold breeze.So,I could only really get some data on the climb out and a general impression of the handling.As may be expected, it felt very much like the standard Ava.It was somewhat more 'floaty' but turned at least as well if not slighly more sharply.I spent the first flight trimming it and trying the spoiler so this was fairly short.The second flight it managed about seven and a half minutes in cold air with no discernable lift.It should do better on a calmer day.
The climb out averaged 12.3m/s over the two flights.This compares quite well with the 12.4m/s calculated from one of the rules of thumb I posted some time ago on RCG ( ).This is closer than the 12.1 m/s estimated by my supposedly more precise method which uses the prop performance characteristics.(see chart attached)-Isn't it always the case!
Overall, I am very pleased with the performance of the drive.It won't set the world on fire in terms of overall efficiency(about 48 % including the prop) but it is very light ,helped me to balance the model and is more than up to the job for this application.I will be interested to see how it goes when I try it out with the heavier Pike wings.I have a feeling it might just be a bit short of puff.

As well as flying the model I also did some static tests on a Turingy 40-80 C 1400"Traxxas" battery pack. I bought this,based on Ian's reports, as an alternative to the normal TP (65C 1300).Both batteries are more or less the same size and weight and so both fit in the model OK.In short, at the current draw of about 40 A(say around 30C for both packs) the performance of both batteries was more or less identical in terms of power draw and voltage drop.The TP will probably handle higher currents better (and may last longer?)but at 40A the Turingy seems OK and is considerably less expensive.

So, whilst it is difficult to be definitive, it does look as though this model will be a very good light weather model.I will report again when I have tested the heavier Pike-winged version.

Last edited by Painter S; Mar 03, 2013 at 01:18 PM.
Mar 03, 2013, 02:18 PM
Registered User
Glad to hear things are working out well for you .
I have been using the Turnigy Traxxas pack for 7 months now and so has my flying buddy. Great value for money/ performance.
I was testing my Reisenaeur gearboxes Scorpion outrunner set up today and the results are almost identical to my Mega 16/15/3. Most satisfactory.

I am now working up my next project 3.85m, Drela's aerofoils, my usual Kristoffair pod and boom but no longer using an all flying tailplane.
I am aiming for a weight of about 2.1 kgs. I have it mostly thought out and am currently acquiring all the bits.
Last edited by sandist; Mar 21, 2013 at 04:31 AM. Reason: Spelling
Mar 03, 2013, 03:29 PM
Registered User
Yes Ian,
I am very pleased with the way things have worked out.
I would be interested to hear from you how you find the Scorpion/Reisenauer is in comparison with the Mega 16/15/3 /Reisenauer in tems of temperature rise.
As you can see from my previous posts I replaced the original Mega16 EDF with a Hyperion 2216 heli motor, primarily to get the model to balance.Despite the fact the Mega motor is considerably heavier and more efficient than the Hyperion the latter runs very much cooler at the same input power(something just over 400 Watts).

It could well be that the better cooling on the Hyperion is due to the better venting through the front holes and the incorporation of a rudimentary fan at the back of the bell.A few back-of-a-beer-mat calculations show that without heat loss the Hyperion should warm up about 1.5X as fast as the Mega.It certainly doesn't do that.Perhaps the better cooling is a real plus point for geared outrunners-particularly those based on the Scorpion design(Scorpion,Hyperion and Peggy Pepper).

Have you noticed a lower temperature rise with your Scorpion set up?

Last edited by Painter S; Mar 03, 2013 at 05:14 PM.
Mar 04, 2013, 05:49 AM
Registered User
I have not done a serious check on temperatures, but it certainly does seem as though the Scorpion set up is a good bet. The batteries are cooler and the motor temperature seems lower to the touch.

I was taking the model to 175m then crowing down to land in about 2 minutes and repeating the exercise. I did this about 4 times so anything amiss should have shown up. The ambient temperature was 5 degrees and the telemetry from the fus pod showed 20 degrees at the end of the exercise. The device on the end of a Scorpion motor is supposed to help cooling.
Mar 10, 2013, 12:02 PM
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Next Project SuprBuzrd.
I realise that this thread is entitled soaring on a budget, this one is only going to be budget in comparison with what I would have to pay for a Maxa or Pike Perfection etc. I expect to come in at under half the cost of a mouldie.

As I currently have very limited building space the next venture is going to be difficult.
Will Lipscomb (Whisper Wings) is making a set of light wings for me at circa 3.8metres.
I will use my usual set up of the Kristoffair pod and a carbon boom. Articulated elevator rather than an all moving tailplane, the tailplane to be mounted on a small pylon similar to Will's Super Supra. It should be ,more or less an assembly job rather than a build.

Power wise I am looking at a HET 2w 20 with a Reisenaeur gearbox running on 3s lipo.
I am aiming for about 2kg all up weight with a ballast capability of another 300/400grams.
Servos will be 4 mks 6100 and a couple of KST wing servos for the flaps.

I am looking to be able to take on the expensive moulded planes as well as Pulsars,Ava's and of course my own Buzrd which has proved popular locally. In fact the last three rounds of our Winter League has been won by people flying Buzrds.
Mar 11, 2013, 06:41 PM
Cap'N Crunch
pcharlebois's Avatar


Thank you for this thread, new to soaring and have never thought of combining parts to create the glider of your dreams, this has openned a whole new window of opportunity
Mar 16, 2013, 07:34 AM
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I am glad that you are finding something of interest here.
One thing I have found over the years is that there are no absolutes in modelling.
I am trying to choose the parts that will do the best for me, at as economical a price as possible.

I now have the boom the pod , servos motor ,speedo, rx etc and am eagerly awaiting the wings from Will. He thinks that they will be around 970 grams, so achieving a sub 2000 gram model is on the cards. But still retaining the strength necessary for competition use.
I can hardly wait!
Mar 30, 2013, 11:16 AM
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Having had my arm twisted to contribute to Ian's BUZRD thread, I too have crawled out of the woodwork!
I was very enthused about my friend Ian's project and after my cataract ops, was keen to get going. My BUZRD is very close to Ian's design - same wings, fuz, pod, and boom, and tailplane; homemade fin& rudder very close to Ian's, but a mite larger area and rudder full length pin hinged. There is a photo of it ( the red and blue one ) on Ian's #55 post.
I must say that I am delighted with this model's handling; it is a pussycat, very forgiving, can turn on a sixpence, and can scratch around at low level for minutes, but also has surprising penetration for such a lightly loaded plane. It has plenty scope to increase that wing loading by ballasting its main spar boom. I've only tried around 200gm so far, but aim to try up to 600gm for very windy conditions(that would be a 35%increase )
Power train is the Mega 16/15/3 //maxxon 3.3-1 gearbox, Black Mantis 60A (bec) esc with HK Traxxas 1400-40/80C 3s lipo ( also use the Nano-Tech 1300 45/90C, but prefer the 1400. I run the Aeronaut 16x10" folder for 200m HLR comps but currently de-propped to 16x8" HK carbon folders to better suit a slower climbout for the 175M winter postal comps.
I am also now considering another model based on this fuz.
Ian's new design using Will's 'Drela' foam wings is very tempting, but I'm looking at the original brief of "model on a budget", so considering the use of existing older moulded soarer's wings strapped to this fuz combo. Original thoughts were for using a pair of ERASER wings, but now doubt if that would be any improvement over the standard BUZRD and would be heavier. So the 2 possibilities now are my well flown SHADOW wings or my little flown (because of cataracts) Super Starlight wings! Both would require an increase in tailplane area and possibly fin/rudder also, maybe increase in boom length. Still pondering!
Anyway a huge thank you to Ian for sharing all his great design work with us all.
There you go Ian ---- done it at last innit.
Last edited by dwinnd; Mar 30, 2013 at 11:52 AM. Reason: additional info added
Apr 03, 2013, 07:53 PM
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heliwill10's Avatar
Feet Wet!

They are right around 35oz or 992 grams. Each tip weighs about 6.9oz or 195 grams.

The stainless steel ballast will help in that Scottish breeze : ) The disser articulated stab, which spans 30" weighs 51 grams.

Keep your fingers crossed they make a safe trip....
Last edited by heliwill10; Apr 03, 2013 at 08:12 PM.

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