Originally Posted by WOS

the plastic used on some of these 450 electric clones to me and seeing them just doesnt look to be made very well. I flew raptors 30's to 70's. caliber 30, bergen 50 and even had a gasser once. and yes the raptors can fly damn near forever on plastic grips. wipe out with a raptor and put it back together. wipe out with one of these cheap 450 clones and it just doesnt seem like it would hold up well. Just my opinion and nothing more to it. Being a maintenance manager with a degree in engineering I put things together all the time with seriously tight tolerances. Seeing some of these 450 clones, the cheaper ones there is no such thing as tolerances. and yes I have seen a few of them already. Heck, I have a cheap dynam e-razor I bought for $35 dollars and even it has meatl grips. beefy ones and doesnt look to bad for a cheap 450. $35 for a complete heli with servos gyro and motor as well as blades. again just my opinion and nothing more to read into it. And No! I see nothing really wrong with plastic grips on heli's. use to fly them all the time ten years ago with crazy head speeds. Never lost a grip or a blade

ohh ok, thanks for clarifying that. i totally agree with ya on that one.
you summed it up quite well. How long have you been Flying btw...

Sometimes I miss the smell of nitro! the sweet sound of the little engines reving up screaming all day and happy to do so. They just didnt have all these electrics that they have today. It amazes me when I got back into heli's to see all these little mesquito's buzzin around! But actually kinda like the 450's and the trex 500's I have now. Love the storm 450. to me? nice heli! A few cheap clones to fly around and beat em up. Heck it is kinda fun!
Back then the nitro birds cost a pretty penny. Minimum a grand for a basic setup and another grand in parts learning and fixing after the first few crashes. Heli fuel was cheap back then, afraid to even ask what a gallon runs these days of 20 or 30% nitro.

I flew for a year or so back then then a few back surgeries forced me out. Just getting back into them now. Was amazed getting on the sim and practice for a few. got the storm 450 out and actually flew it around abit without crashing. I only did sport flying though. I never really got the hand of the 3D. but now I can do some inverts and rolls on the sim without crashing and bring it home. hmmmmm, wonder if my nerves can take it if i try it in the real?

went to a funfly in NJ once back then. O.C. Bob was having it. not many electrics back then anywhere. Alan Szabo Jr was even out there doing his thing. Some serious jet powered heli's as well. Couple of the old guys showing off flying heli's with the TX behind their backs doing crazy 3d flying. no 2.4 ghz back then. everyone had a frequency and all the radios locked up so no one flew with the same frequency. must of been over a hundred people flying. spent the night out around NJ when it was done. good time!
And most of them? Plastic blade grips!

Originally Posted by rhampton

i'm sorry but i dont understand the comment about the blade holders? are you saying that the larger heli's are no good cause they have plastic blade holders? i'm sorry.,,,, please clarify in more details please................................

I'm not saying the larger hellies are no good because of the plastic blade holders. Those can be replaced with a metal head or metal blade holders.The larger hellies use larger blades which means more stress on the blade holders. plastic just do'es not seem to me to be a reliable material to use in a high stress area.
I recall a few years back when the clones were hitting the market there were a few incidents caused by plastic with bubble pockets in the parts, mainly in the head and landing struts even in the 450's.I personely know of a plastic landing strut on a choas 600 that broke dureing a normal landing. I plan on buying a 500 clone, BUT,I will get one with a metal head. A broken landing strut will only tear up the blades, a broken blade holder can cause a lot of grief. I got hit once with roter blade, trust me Its not something I would reccomend.

Originally Posted by prop bender

I'm not saying the larger hellies are no good because of the plastic blade holders. Those can be replaced with a metal head or metal blade holders.The larger hellies use larger blades which means more stress on the blade holders. plastic just do'es not seem to me to be a reliable material to use in a high stress area.

IT IS. Just look at your car - there is plastic in high stress areas. This stuff isn't even really properly called plastic. It is a type of epoxy I believe, but it's not the same stuff as what most consumers would call plastic. When you increase the blade size, you need more flex in the head, and that's what the plastic gives you. It is fine. There's different quality levels to be sure, but don't discount something because it's plastic - it might be just fine. We make guns out of plastic these days, and that's a high stress application for sure.

Originally Posted by jasmine2501

IT IS. Just look at your car - there is plastic in high stress areas. This stuff isn't even really properly called plastic. It is a type of epoxy I believe, but it's not the same stuff as what most consumers would call plastic. When you increase the blade size, you need more flex in the head, and that's what the plastic gives you. It is fine. There's different quality levels to be sure, but don't discount something because it's plastic - it might be just fine. We make guns out of plastic these days, and that's a high stress application for sure.

Be that as it may Jasmine, and I respect your opinion, however, there is good quality plastic( or whatever it's called) and there not so good quality plastic. I doubt very much if you can get quality plastic at a cheap price. As you stated there are differant levels of quality and therein lays the reason for caution

Originally Posted by prop bender

Be that as it may Jasmine, and I respect your opinion, however, there is good quality plastic( or whatever it's called) and there not so good quality plastic. I doubt very much if you can get quality plastic at a cheap price. As you stated there are differant levels of quality and therein lays the reason for caution

Bad quality metal is equally dangerous. The marketing department is doing a real number in that arena. Everything is labeled "CNC!!1!" and that is meaningless - but people think it means something. There's a lot of scheisters in this business, and they use a lot of meaningless talk to try to sell their stuff, and it's pretty effective sometimes. CNC only means the thing was made on a computer-controlled mill - but it could have been made by a sleepy operator using last week's cutting tools, or it could be made of a bad alloy, or any number of other issues. I'm just saying, the material that something is made from, and the method used to make it, usually don't say much about the quality overall. So, don't fall victim to the marketing department is my point - and that means don't listen to them when they are shouting "CNC!" and don't listen to them when they say "this isn't made of cheap plastic!" because it could just as easily be made of cheap metal

This is the stuff, btw - it's wicked strong and if you don't believe me, take a dremel to your heli, you'll break the dremel before you get anywhere

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrylon...adiene_styrene

ok so let me ask you then. on this 450sz heli i just got.. Let's go with the assumption i put all cheap electronics.
HXT 900 servos
30esc
4400kv motor
GY48V Gyro and Generic tail servo.
GF 325 Blades and same for tail.
ok everything on heli is stock. PLASTIC everything,,,,
You Guys seem to have some experience and i respect that. ok with that in mind,,,,,,,,,,,on a $12 Kit, what's the 1st thing you think on this heli is gonna give.

I'd stay away from the 500, the thing about the 450 is that you can upgrade the head/tail to metal for $30 or so. I bought 2 of those kits, built one using a copterX FBL head and metal tail. Flies very nice, I got mine for $18 shipped last Christmas. The 500 has no low cost upgrades, you can fly with plastic but you want to watch your headspeed. That plastic 450 head should not be run above ~2500 RPM, not sure the limits on a plastic 500 head but be careful.

I would likely go with a HK, EXI, or CopterX CF metal head/tail 500, probably worth the extra $90.

Originally Posted by jasmine2501

Bad quality metal is equally dangerous. The marketing department is doing a real number in that arena. Everything is labeled "CNC!!1!" and that is meaningless - but people think it means something. There's a lot of scheisters in this business, and they use a lot of meaningless talk to try to sell their stuff, and it's pretty effective sometimes. CNC only means the thing was made on a computer-controlled mill - but it could have been made by a sleepy operator using last week's cutting tools, or it could be made of a bad alloy, or any number of other issues. I'm just saying, the material that something is made from, and the method used to make it, usually don't say much about the quality overall. So, don't fall victim to the marketing department is my point - and that means don't listen to them when they are shouting "CNC!" and don't listen to them when they say "this isn't made of cheap plastic!" because it could just as easily be made of cheap metal

This is the stuff, btw - it's wicked strong and if you don't believe me, take a dremel to your heli, you'll break the dremel before you get anywhere

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrylon...adiene_styrene

Looks really good Jasmine. But how do we know that material is being used in this preticular helli(the 500 shown in this thread) I have no idia of it's cost but commen sence tells me it's not cheap,and thats my point. I know a thing or two about cnc and soft metals I'm a retired machinest and you are right about quality cnc, it can get pretty sloppy, thats the reason for sloppy bearing fits in some of the metal blade holders and other parts, but is has nothing to do with the strength of the material.
I think the reason for this discussion is that we tend to generalize,and thats never a good thing. My whole point Jasmine is be carefull what you buy!.Cheap is what cheap is! This bird shown may be just fine, but the price tells me it probly is not! I feel people new to the hobby should be warned about these cheap hellies, safty is everones concern and that I suppose is the reason for my responce to this thread in the first place.

Originally Posted by rhampton

ok so let me ask you then. on this 450sz heli i just got.. Let's go with the assumption i put all cheap electronics.
HXT 900 servos
30esc
4400kv motor
GY48V Gyro and Generic tail servo.
GF 325 Blades and same for tail.
ok everything on heli is stock. PLASTIC everything,,,,
You Guys seem to have some experience and i respect that. ok with that in mind,,,,,,,,,,,on a $12 Kit, what's the 1st thing you think on this heli is gonna give.

Just a guess. I say the tail section comes apart mid flight. Even with hk's One needs to really give them a once over inspection after every flight. Well this applys with all helis I suppose. But more so with the cheaper clones.

Originally Posted by prop bender

Looks really good Jasmine. But how do we know that material is being used in this preticular helli(the 500 shown in this thread) I have no idia of it's cost but commen sence tells me it's not cheap,and thats my point. I know a thing or two about cnc and soft metals I'm a retired machinest and you are right about quality cnc, it can get pretty sloppy, thats the reason for sloppy bearing fits in some of the metal blade holders and other parts, but is has nothing to do with the strength of the material.
I think the reason for this discussion is that we tend to generalize,and thats never a good thing. My whole point Jasmine is be carefull what you buy!.Cheap is what cheap is! This bird shown may be just fine, but the price tells me it probly is not! I feel people new to the hobby should be warned about these cheap hellies, safty is everones concern and that I suppose is the reason for my responce to this thread in the first place.

Well, you can kind of assume it's ABS because nothing else really works - but we don't know anything about the quality of it. Also, the price is a statistical outlier - so there is probably something else going on other than a straight-up quality cut. They might be taking a loss on these to save storage cost or something like that. Or, and this worries me, the kit might be known bad quality and they are just trying to recover some of their cost without destroying someone's reputation.

This worries me when we see it in the 500 size - the exploding 450s worry me a little bit, but an exploding 500 could be deadly. We just don't know - and I'm not going to be the one to try it.

prop bender & jasmine2501, I see you both are somewhat educated on the subject and i tip my hat to both of you. I can see somewhat of a heated Dispute erupting between both of ya...LOL...Let me ask you.....and this may be a stupid question....Most of the Old School heli's, JR Ergo, Raptor 90, Huey Cobra by Dieter Schluter. 1971,,,,,,,Kyosho Nexus,,,,,Dubro 505 Whirlybird.,,,,,,,Schluter-Hegi Cobra.,,,JR Voyager,,,,etc,,,etc,,,,,,,ok weren't all these Heli's all plastic blade grips? Plastic head? I mean serious,,,,,,,,if you were to put one of those older 90sz heli's against a Trex 700 and just did a Hover test,,,Can you really say one was better than the other,,,,Only hovering that's it....

Yes, plastic grips are popular on larger helicopters, mostly older designs. It is quality stuff and perfectly suited to the application. Older helis such as my GMP Competitor tend to have metal grips. I think the plastic technology wasn't really good enough yet in the 80s.

The older helis were set up differently, but no, I think enough advances in mechanics have been made, that the older designs just couldn't keep up with the newer ones. If you look at things like the new SAB Goblin - it's mechanically so superior, you just couldn't replicate that performance with anything else. Also, the older helis tended to be under-powered - like they would use a .60 motor on what we would consider a 90-sized helicopter today. Hovering... the old helis can be nice and stable, just like any other large helicopter.