added painted Flare dispensers:

Operation Apache Rising: ACCOMPLISHED. My bird is re-assembled and looking better that before. i am a very happy heli freak.

ill mount the gun tomorrow, wire her all up and stow the wiring, then move on to the mechanics which wont be a very big job at all. looking forward to seeing her fly again.

This is a joke right? This is the response I get from cnchelicopters

"Buddy:
send email to factory , they told us , weight 6g difference is ok for speed 2000 heli , try go high speed to see if still vibration. you can take out the main baldes out first to test , will be safety



jeff S.
xmseller xmhobbies
http://www.cnchelicopter.com"

all I can say is WOW!

you are one of the bad luck , but i have two of them Bell 412 4 blades head also from them . but i never put it to my heli. i see the lower swashplate using 450 ball link .i don't think it can handle a 600 or 700 size scale fuselage , So i just let it display ! and too heavy weight ,and so many play slop in the phasing holder arm . But in you case . first you can take out the rotor blades first . let spin from slow and let ot about 40% power , take a eye protect glasses , and close to see the centering in the center hub . and second is see the blades grip holder take in same level or not . And third see the outer length of each blades grip holder when it spin in slow .or use a measuring tools measure each bladed grip holder distance between the conter hub ,i think you can get the answer ! Vibration ! it is from a unbalance object when it spinning right ? So you just check every spinning object .i sew the video . it is one of the problem from the loose battery .So hard to find out other problem , just only you can do at home is check the centering quality .it is very sensite of a 4 blades or 5 blades rotor head . we have meet many many vibration problem before . For a cnc parts . centering quality is effect very big ,and check how many play slop when you let the centerhub go into the main shaft ? it is also very trouble problem .if the products (center hub screw hole) not go centering for the center hub screw , after you (maybe ) use some force to let the m-3 screw through to next side . you feeling is not easy or not smooth , it mean the main shaft or maybe the center hub screw hole not good centering . you can take out this M-3 rotor head screw and 180 degree let the screw go into to hole again . if the feeling is different . it mean you find out( one )of the problem of the vibration . I have make many rotor head before and now . we know how the problem from .we have fix many problem when we are produce the rotor head .the rotor head screw also many many trouble , See The A .it is a good cnc center hub, B is a very propular problem .because the cnc worker drill the (vertical direction ) hole , from top to groud direct , if they drill the hole too hard force . it will easy appear the hole is not right 90 degree .because the cnc or milling machine just lock one side of this parts . C is the lower quality machine "manual" setting the centering and than drilling the hole . it will let the hole not in center line . The problem B/C is very easy to check , just let the screw one from a direct and than take out the screw and 180 spin to next side and try to feeling the different .
And than one other problemm is the main shaft size (standard problem) .Japan company ) Jr and Hirobo is 9.98mm .Taiwan Align is 9.96mm . if the rotor head factory use Japan main shaft to fit and make their center hub , but the buyer let it to Align main shaft . the happening C will appear . but if the rotor head factory use Align main shaft be the standard , the Jr and Hirobo buyer will feel too tight to let the head into the main shaft and the radius board can not move smooth . so the head factory also use JR and Hiriobo main shaft 9.98 mm to make the head . so the 9.96mm main shaft so bad after fit the 9.98 center hub if the head factory not good experience have this situation , the head quality will so .....worse.
Rotor head screw position problem is also make trouble . The number of the mechanic in market sure is Align , their center hub main shaft screws so far from the top . But many head factory will follow them , because their number is big . But if you are Mikado mechanic . the screw hole is close in the top . if a rotor head screw hole in lower but you fit to a Mikado main shaft . the main shaft is not deep enoght through to the center hub . the bad centering must be happaning .
It is just some sharing the cnc proccess experience and some i had meet the problem , some is cnc quality problem , and some is the size standard problem .

Kins correct when it comes to the "jesus bolt", i could not get my apache flying correctly because i had the wrong shaped m3 jesus bolt, it was threaded the whole way, instead of just partial thread. Couldt get my head to fly without some serious vibrations, Once i put a new screw in, voila. perfect tracking.

thank you very much kin! I will check all these out and see what I can find.

Also what does it mean when you at lift off pitch and head speed, but the heli does not lift, but if you put the slightest elevator input it fly's off the ground?

Originally Posted by buddertoast

thank you very much kin! I will check all these out and see what I can find.

Also what does it mean when you at lift off pitch and head speed, but the heli does not lift, but if you put the slightest elevator input it fly's off the ground?

possibly your + pitch is set too low for the heli, with extra battery weight, and your headpseed is possibly too low. Also, the apache is tail heavy, and tail boom is 5deg tilt dowards, so some forward elevator is required to lift the heavy tail enabling liftoff.

my apache lifts at 60%throttle. Because i did want to shim the rear mounts in order to get the main shaft sitting perfectly vertical when the apache is sitting on the ground, which is a scale look thing rather than performance. my apache required a slight touch of forward elevator to take load. My tail releases load first and rises, then the load comes off my main struts, (By load i mean the weight of the heli on the ground as it lifts)and i can ever so slightly increase my pitch to get a nice smooth lift off. Theres an art to getting nice smooth liftoffs on the apache.

theres one train of thought any ways.

My upgrade parts for my apache main 4 blade rotor head have arrived so im ready to reassemble the mechanics and test fly. 2 week wait on cockpit completions so will test her without fuse then mount them and wait patiently for my cockpit panels to arrive. i wanted to add little opening doors to the apache for display but it looks like it will be a major job so if anyone has any experience making hatches for the apache cockpit, please, share your wisdom.

Originally Posted by buddertoast

thank you very much kin! I will check all these out and see what I can find. Also what does it mean when you at lift off pitch and head speed, but the heli does not lift, but if you put the slightest elevator input it fly's off the ground?

1. the pitch system some thing not smooth (new ball linkage ). the swashplate up ward and down ward have problem . but it easy to check .
2 . pitch cure . the pitch cure in the 35-70 % , let it a little flat . don't let it too straigt , let it flat , it mean let the pitch life slow . see the pic .
3. what rotor blades you are using , if the blades too flixable . it is so easy appear this happening , like the very very old wooden blades ....plastic ... .and the blades c/g is too (backward) . it will let the blades wing tip too sensite , so hard to stay in the center 0 pitch .it will go up or down very fasy respon , but to hard keep in 0 pitch . especial you have twist the blades easy .it mean it too soft . not good for flying .especial the big size rotor blades but flixable material .
. you check if the problem is ,when you lift up the pitch become 0 and than suddenly go up fast . it is blades problem. too soft ! if your mechanic and setting is ok , you can change a carbon normal rotor blades to check this problem .

I fly this Apache before . the front tilt angle is effect it (go frontward) .when it take off and landing . So you need find out the prolem beofore you put the mechanic inside the fuse .take care ! but your test is a normal landing gear , nothing any angle in the mechanic with the ground . so i think you need more time in the blades strength and pitch cure !

Originally Posted by kin

I fly this Apache before . the front tilt angle is effect it (go frontward) .when it take off and landing . So you need find out the prolem beofore you put the mechanic inside the fuse .take care ! but your test is a normal landing gear , nothing any angle in the mechanic with the ground . so i think you need more time in the blades strength and pitch cure !

I'm using stiff carbon fiber blades. there pretty strong. It probably is my setup as I stripped it all down and started over for the 3rd time now. I got the swash stay level at 0 pitch now for the first time, but the linkages from blade grips to the swash are much smaller, so very little movement makes them move faster.

I'm going to mess with it today and take the heli to the park for a test spin

if you want a very smooth setting for scale flying , The first time take off is see how it vibration and the tail gyro setting . if this firsdt take off have no vibration and tail control feel ok . next step is set the throttle have two , one is a normal throttle cure, one is idle -up le the throttle setting in 85-90 % fixed . let you only the collective pitch . of couse sure the head speed is right . it can use the pinon gear to set the head speed . 4 blades head is better in 1350-1500 rpm . this range can have very nice handleing and thottle idle up can let the power stable and the power set cold . (lower amper) . so this is a tips ! if you use the normal cure to fly a scale . the power set will very hot , because you have use lower votage (usually is 65-70 % power) . so it mean you are flying (low cell votage ) . so the curreny will go higher . motor and battery get hot ! (hot is a power lost ) ! Hope you know the setting and happy safty take off .and sure your tail blades big enough for low head speed . the head speed lower thwn 1500 . the tail respon will lower , add a 10mm extra in the tail blades length !

Originally Posted by kin

if you want a very smooth setting for scale flying , The first time take off is see how it vibration and the tail gyro setting . if this firsdt take off have no vibration and tail control feel ok . next step is set the throttle have two , one is a normal throttle cure, one is idle -up le the throttle setting in 85-90 % fixed . let you only the collective pitch . of couse sure the head speed is right . it can use the pinon gear to set the head speed . 4 blades head is better in 1350-1500 rpm . this range can have very nice handleing and thottle idle up can let the power stable and the power set cold . (lower amper) . so this is a tips ! if you use the normal cure to fly a scale . the power set will very hot , because you have use lower votage (usually is 65-70 % power) . so it mean you are flying (low cell votage ) . so the curreny will go higher . motor and battery get hot ! (hot is a power lost ) ! Hope you know the setting and happy safty take off .and sure your tail blades big enough for low head speed . the head speed lower thwn 1500 . the tail respon will lower , add a 10mm extra in the tail blades length !

I agree with the idle up. I always fly that way, it is more controllable and stable.
I flew it today with still a lot of vibration only when there is stick movement.
I took it home and stripped the head down to bare. looking at all you said i should look for.
1- there is a little wiggle of the housing on the shaft before I tighten the bolt.
2- there really isn't and miss drilled mounting holes as the bolt goes in smooth each way.
3- the sensor is deff crooked, but I can't tell really if it's just the sensor or the housing.

here is a small clip

IMG 0237 (1 min 2 sec)

I'm buying a new 4 blade head today. any suggestions? copter-x seems to be the best I have seen so far.

I'm buying a new 4 blade head today. any suggestions? copter-x seems to be the best I have seen so far.

I have the Copter-X. I bought it from http://www.ehirobo.com . For about $117US, which includes shipping, I got the head, a main shaft and collar, swashplate, follower and links. (Although I was warned not to use the included plastic ball links and to use Align ones).

Not a bad deal, and the head looks/feels awesome.

Patrick

Originally Posted by CW4

I have the Copter-X. I bought it from http://www.ehirobo.com . For about $117US, which includes shipping, I got the head, a main shaft and collar, swashplate, follower and links. (Although I was warned not to use the included plastic ball links and to use Align ones).

Not a bad deal, and the head looks/feels awesome.

Patrick

Hi Buddy,

I have the same in my Apache and ordered yesterday the second for my BlackHawk.


Jan,