I would guess that there are people here with some experience in acquiring and keeping "public" lands for slope sites. I have contacted staff from AMA's "Flying Site Assistance" program, and as you would guess their "assistance" is in flat ground powered flight organized programs -- like how to set up a flying field, safety practices, club rules and regulations, etc. But not much (read: Nothing) about slope sites.

They were good enough to send me some lists of current sites, broken down to areas like "recreational area", "landfills", "state trust land", "parks" etc, but the spreadsheets didn't give any detail as to where the sites are, contact info, and only two mentioned soaring (and I think it meant thermal soaring).

The question always comes down to two options:
1. Identify the land as public, and fly until someone notices (and most who I see "noticing" think sloping is "cool"), or complains (the minority who feel that somehow we are disturbing a bird or stepping off a trail onto a flower).
or
2. Try to get permission, knowing that whomever might say "Yes" is likely to be concerned about what will come back to bite their political a** and say "No" to protect themselves.

It's the old "easier to ask forgiveness than permission" policy.

So let's say we got the route of #2, and find someone (or a commission) who is responsible to make decisions at the city, county, or state level:

-- what resources are available to make our case?
-- does anyone have lists of sloping sites on public lands as examples of good site management?
-- our flyers are currently not members of a formal AMA club. Does that help to have a club, or is that somehow intimidating that maybe now 20 people will show up to use the site?
-- are there typically leases signed with the county, state, or federal landholders?

Thanks in advance for any advice, information, situations that anyone is willing to share.

-= Dave

Option 1

Steve

"How to best approach State or Local officials for a slope site?"

If you go for option 2....
Lie!!
Tell them you are a responsible senior citizen!

J
Who has never met a responsible sloper...
Yet!!

Dave ,
Iv'e had a bit of experience with acquiring 2 slope sites down here. However that being said
with out being a club associated with your state and national aeromodelling body your chances of success are low .Firstly you find out who owns the land and approach them with a letter explaining what you aim at doing explaining that no engine noise is evident because are using the wind as your propulsion ,explain how it can help the youth in the local area and diverts them from other things such a vandalism ,this also works for the site that your presents prevents the acts of destruction to their property occurring. And lastly your third party limited liability insurance cover which relieves them of the stress if something goes wrong. Both sites I've been successful with have used this approach and both have been with the national Parks and wildlife service in Australia ( very environmental oriented),but like I said thats because I could use the clubs name to prove our intentions.
hope that helps and good luck

Originally Posted by steve wenban

explain how it can help the youth in the local area and diverts them from other things such a vandalism ,this also works for the site that your presents prevents the acts of destruction to their property occurring.

Sloper mafia selling protection. Excellent!

1. Find a young scion of a multimillionaire/billionaire family.

2. Interest him/her in slope model flying.

3. Convince him/her to persuade his/her father to fund a tax-exempt "SuperPac". (Be sure to incorporate the words "faith", " freedom" or "justice" in its official title.) If his/her father is too busy running for President get someone else.

4 Use that fund to bribe local/state/federal officials, in the usual protocol established in your area, to grant your request. (If you don't know what it is ask a taxi driver or your local rabbi/preacher/priest.)

5. Enjoy the results!

"Lovely slope you've got there, guvnah. Shame if something happened to it...."

OK.... two serious answers so far, from the Steves...

Any more serious suggestions before this turns into 'Sorry, error, please delete'?

I know I've never posted any humorous comments on any thread (but lord knows I've tried! )

-= Dave

Dup

I'm also with option one!
Knowing that you guys mainly fly Weasels and Alulas....
I'm sure you could get away with it!

How much danger does a 300g soft spongy toy pose?

Originally Posted by johannlochner

How much danger does a 300g soft spongy toy pose?

300g is meaningless in the U.S. What's that in pounds?

Unfortunately it's not the danger, but the perception of danger, or harassment, or whatever...

We flew several times on DNR (state managed public land) which was posted "No hang gliding, no paragliding" and the last time one of the flyers got a call after that we were harassing nesting birds (of course, we don't fly near trees).

We've flown on a county park hill for 3 years, which is a part of a conservancy area, and got reported last year that our activity is not part of the "land use plan", which only allows for hiking.

We don't have the luxury of enough available sites to fly until we get kicked out and move to the next site. So I think we need to find the proper channels and have the discussions to make our activities clear and get approvals.

-= Dave

Get an AMA club together. If you have that, AMA should be a lot more interested in helping, and it gives the state/county/whatever the idea that you're serious people partaking in a serious hobby.

Prepare for this to take a while. Study the relevant land use plans / nesting bird seasons / etc and come to them with an actionable plan - i.e. come to them with a solution, not a problem. Make it clear how you'll keep things in control (membership, training, specific flying sites away from sensitive areas, etc.) and make sure to address perceived impacts (i.e. nonmotorized planes, no noise, no pollution, lightweight, etc).

This is precisely why modelers got organized in the first place. Make sure you make it clear that there are extremely limited numbers of slope soaring sites and that your club will make preservation of these resources their primary aim.

Steve

1) Ask for Permission (if someone of Authority is present, if not, Fly but be responsible) . Don't leave a mess when you leave.

2) Show your CURRENT AMA License

3) Explain the protection and responsibility that comes with owning an AMA Membership

4) Inform them of what exactly a SAILPLANE is all about and the "minimum of possible hazards" that "SOARING" can cause ...
(unless you fly with LiPo's (possible fire hazard) ... or, with any type of MOTOR for power ... which causes unwanted NOISE) ...

5) Mention that most (responsible) SAILPLANE Pilots respect the outdoors, and love the serenity of the nature they SOAR in ...

6) Show them exactly on how a SAILPLANE is controlled and what the outcome in if radio contact is lost ...

7) Impress upon those that own the land ... you are into SILENT FLIGHT .... and our hobby is small sub-set of the RC community, and shared with many of the same mind-set.[/U]


Better, than "I fly a glider" ...

Sailplanes is what we fly (unless you have a motor on it - then it's not a SAILPLANE) ... Gliders get associated with TOYS ...

Don't let them believe our hobby is the UNSAFE ... That the cost of the plane and the time spent in building it outweigh the desire to INTENTIONALLY cause DAMAGE to it or it's surroundings ....



If you do not think this way, you probably shouldn't be SOARING to begin with ....

Steven Wenban and the Dawg are on target, especially in your situation where the number of potential flying sites is so limited. One of the very best things I think you can do is show them visually what slope flying is. By that I mean prepare a well-edited video composed of a balance of long and medium shots of beautiful settings around the world where the flying involves only 1 or 2 planes at a time doing smooth graceful flying with some conservative aerobatics thrown in. Wouldn't hurt to have a few close in slow flyby shots and smooth graceful landings as well. Dub a smooth instrumental restful soundtrack with a calm wellmodulated voiceover commentary saying "all the right things" then close out with some footage of a blend of kids, teens, young adults, parents and we feeble grayhaired old farts all smiling and loading our gear into middleamerican motorvehicles, policing the area then driving off into the sunset.

Done right a 5-15 minute video like that has the entertainment factor to hold the attention of the general public, including public officials, and provides a consistent and repeatable message to all parties involved whether part of the decision making process or potential adversary. Think back to what "Endless Summer" did for surfing and just scale it down so we don't get crowded out by Kooks & Wannabees.

Ken

@ Steve's, D_Dawg, and Ken -- some great ideas, keep 'em coming guys. If we get enough good stuff here, it may be worth a 'Sticky', since a flying site is just as important as a good plane!

AMA's been good -- within the limited extent of their resources relating to slope, which isn't much. They sent me a packet of guidelines, flyers, three DVDs. -- two relating to park flying sites and one with testimonials of flat-land flying sites on federal lands. The county, which is responsible for the conservancy hill (and is a 20 minute walk from my house) does manage a powered RC site on a capped landfill on the other side of town. But it's the conservancy group that will be the immovable object.

I think that CA has one or more 'approved' flying sites on conservancy lands, one that I know of on a bird sanctuary. If anyone knows of others that I can use as 'best practices' in discussions with officials, I'd love to hear about them!

More??? ....

Thanks.

-= Dave