Turnigy 9XR - Page 186 - RC Groups
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Dec 31, 2012, 11:41 AM
Registered User
molond's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkahuna
According to HK's website for the Orange TX module.

"Module uses a unique Global ID for binding. In case of binding issues with other branded receivers press the "Change ID" button on module to change the Module ID to another unique value reserved for that module (5 ID's assigned to each module)."

Remember they have probably just reverse engineered Spectrum. I really doubt Horizon Hobby shared their code with them.
Still does not mean they have directly copied the GUIDs from the Spektrum Txs
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Dec 31, 2012, 11:44 AM
I don't want to "Switch Now"
pmackenzie's Avatar
No need for Horizon th release anything.

GUID is generated from the unique RF chip ID and the model slot number.
How that is done was already known for DSM2 for a long time.

DSMX made it more complicated because the hopping sequence is based on the GUID, and the exact algorithm was not known, or easy to figure out.
It seems like they did in fact get GUIDs from some real DSMX transmitters and simply copied the hopping sequences applicable to those.

Then a Russian guy figured it out some time after the initial release of the HK module and posted the information. So now HK can do a proper job of their module if they choose to.

Pat MacKenzie
Dec 31, 2012, 11:45 AM
The Big Kahuna of Foam.
bkahuna's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by molond
Still does not mean they have directly copied the GUIDs from the Spektrum Txs
Agreed, but it makes me wonder if two orange modules at the same field could clash. Sometimes a person orders 2 or 3 modules for friends at their flying field. I assume those would come out of the same factory/batch.

EDIT: I guess I'll retract this post. I just read pmakenzie's post.
Dec 31, 2012, 11:46 AM
Advanced Monkey
nebstress's Avatar
I was going to get a matching connector for the 9XR's internal antenna & then use the FrSky DHT DIY module & hack a connection to the internal antenna, keeping everything in the module bay as I have done previously with my 9x but apparently its not a good idea:

Quote:
You really don't want to use the internal antenna. It's a 1-2dBi antenna and you'll suffer additional losses from the connector and coax run inside the controller.

So unless you are trying to lower your antenna gain and range it's just not worth it. The modules using the internal antenna also have a run of coax from the board to the connector because of it's unfortunate position and design.

The internal antenna idea is a bust, and a step down from the previous design. You just can't start with a low-gain antenna, then add 3 sources of RF loss between it and the TX and expect decent performance.

Besides the basic losses in each coax run and connector you also get signal reflections, impedance mismatching problems, and stray capacitance problems which all reduce your signal power and quality. If we were talking about a powerful transmitter and a high gain antenna the losses would be proportionally fairly small, but we're talking about trying to feed a low-gain antenna with around 60mW. With that small signal and such a low gain it doesn't take much losses to end up with no antenna gain at all.
Dec 31, 2012, 11:47 AM
Registered User
stevea3342's Avatar
I would assume that Hobbyking isn't duplicating their own GUID's, so each module has 5 unique ID's as far as the HobbyKing family goes.

And besides, I need an excuse if I crash a plane. It was the GUID's, not my fat fingers...
Dec 31, 2012, 11:56 AM
Registered User
molond's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nebstress
I was going to get a matching connector for the 9XR's internal antenna & then use the FrSky DHT DIY module & hack a connection to the internal antenna, keeping everything in the module bay as I have done previously with my 9x but apparently its not a good idea:
If you are so worried about the gain on the antenna take the plastic off the FrFky antenna and put that in the handle instead of the original one.

And you will have to worry about the connector and coax (not so much) issues with a module with a removable antenna anyway.

You are already hacking one thing, why not make it a pair?
Dec 31, 2012, 12:05 PM
Advanced Monkey
nebstress's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by molond
If you are so worried about the gain on the antenna take the plastic off the FrFky antenna and put that in the handle instead of the original one.

You are already hacking one thing, why not make it a pair?
That's a great idea, I hadn't thought of that.

What do others think? I don't have the equipment & know how to test antennas, I would like to find the correct connector & use the internal antenna as I'd planned but obviously don't want to end up with a worse signal.

& does anyone know for sure what connector I need? the closest I can find is a SSMB-Nano Plug.
Dec 31, 2012, 12:05 PM
Registered User
stevea3342's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkahuna
II think there is enough space in the case to install a module from a DX4e in there.
I have seen one or two articles on how to do this but wasn't sure about it. Are you following any article in particular, or figuring it out on your own?
Dec 31, 2012, 12:07 PM
The Big Kahuna of Foam.
bkahuna's Avatar
Quote:
You really don't want to use the internal antenna. It's a 1-2dBi antenna and you'll suffer additional losses from the connector and coax run inside the controller.

So unless you are trying to lower your antenna gain and range it's just not worth it. The modules using the internal antenna also have a run of coax from the board to the connector because of it's unfortunate position and design.

The internal antenna idea is a bust, and a step down from the previous design. You just can't start with a low-gain antenna, then add 3 sources of RF loss between it and the TX and expect decent performance.

Besides the basic losses in each coax run and connector you also get signal reflections, impedance mismatching problems, and stray capacitance problems which all reduce your signal power and quality. If we were talking about a powerful transmitter and a high gain antenna the losses would be proportionally fairly small, but we're talking about trying to feed a low-gain antenna with around 60mW. With that small signal and such a low gain it doesn't take much losses to end up with no antenna gain at all.
I'm not sure I agree entirely with this. The internal antenna appears to be the same as the one I took out of a DX5e minus the plastic exterior housing of the antenna. I believe the original antenna in DX5e also had a 2db gain. As to the impedance match, I would bet they are using a standard 50ohm antenna and impedance matching is done by capacitance circuitry on the RF board. At least that's my understanding. In all transmitters the wire from the transmitter RF modules routes through the radio to the antenna. That shouldn't be an issue It is shielded coax. What matters is where the unshielded part of the anttenna goes. In the 9xr it is in the handle away from the electronics, so I don't see any issues.
Dec 31, 2012, 12:14 PM
The Big Kahuna of Foam.
bkahuna's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by molond
If you are so worried about the gain on the antenna take the plastic off the FrFky antenna and put that in the handle instead of the original one.

And you will have to worry about the connector and coax (not so much) issues with a module with a removable antenna anyway.

You are already hacking one thing, why not make it a pair?
That's exactly what I was thinking.
Dec 31, 2012, 12:19 PM
The Big Kahuna of Foam.
bkahuna's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nebstress
That's a great idea, I hadn't thought of that.

What do others think? I don't have the equipment & know how to test antennas, I would like to find the correct connector & use the internal antenna as I'd planned but obviously don't want to end up with a worse signal.

& does anyone know for sure what connector I need? the closest I can find is a SSMB-Nano Plug.
Could one of these...
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...97&postcount=2
Dec 31, 2012, 12:23 PM
Registered User
molond's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by molond
... the FrFky antenna ...
Yet another brand to confuse people!

(I'm trademarking it before some Chinese company steals it)
Last edited by molond; Dec 31, 2012 at 12:26 PM. Reason: I keep trying to say it but it just sounds like "Fry Fu*k-eye"
Dec 31, 2012, 12:28 PM
Registered User
robschonk's Avatar
Frsky has a 5db replacement antenna.

http://www.frsky-rc.com/ShowProducts.asp?id=45

Stacked 1/4 waves? Possibly take the guts out of that antenna and put them in the handle.
Dec 31, 2012, 12:38 PM
The Dude Abides
dsmithwc04's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robschonk
Frsky has a 5db replacement antenna.

http://www.frsky-rc.com/ShowProducts.asp?id=45

Stacked 1/4 waves? Possibly take the guts out of that antenna and put them in the handle.
Hmmm, that looks as a great replacement. Wonder if it even close to 5db and if the real world range is actually greatly increased?
Dec 31, 2012, 12:41 PM
Happy FPV flyer
Kilrah's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJKIRK
Does any component in this radio require more than 5 volts? If not, then why the 12 volt battery?
The JR module "standard" is based around 12V. Many newer ones work with less, but as usual if you make a radio with a JR module slot and want to be able to use any existing JR module in it you need to adhere to the standard. HK do sell modules that require 12V by the way.


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