Flying Heavy Metal Airplane Models. - RC Groups
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Mar 29, 2012, 04:57 PM
Bellanca Kruesair
epoxyearl's Avatar

Flying Heavy Metal Airplane Models.

My intention is to have you take a new look at your flying techniques..
High wing loading models handle differently than trainers,so you need to fly them differently. Not news......
Full scale aircraft fly by numbers....rpm,airspeed,stall speeds,speeds at which you drop the gear,flaps,and over the fence velocities...
I have been flying scale fighters at Warbirds over Delaware for many years,and I watch and learn....
I've noted two distinct piloting where the pilot is still flying his 'trainer' and the second,where the pilot is in full command of his ride.
I'll say up front,that there are times when things happen,beyond the pilot's control.
We'll start out with a perfect day,how about that? Sunshine,NO wind 75 deg.,Sun at your back.
We have a smooth grass runway,100 feet wide and 900 feet long,with a white center line of dusty lime.
Last edited by epoxyearl; Mar 31, 2012 at 05:29 PM. Reason: spelling
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Mar 29, 2012, 05:15 PM
Bellanca Kruesair
epoxyearl's Avatar
We'll assume your engine runs perfectly,and that you've flown it enough to not break it.It's flight trimmed and doesn't 'scare' you anymore.
First,we're going to learn throttle techniques....If I'm judging at a c
ontest,and 'realism' of flight is on the sheet,judging realism begins right away......
Full scale Mustangs and such don't burp the throttle 53 times,taxiing to the runway....YOU do it and you lose a realism point ! Slowly increase the throttle off idle,until the model moves across the grass at a slow pace.Now,you need to count the clicks off idle,so you can hit that same NUMBER every time.....You're allowed a couple of adjustments,but no sudden moves!
I have a piece of tape about 1/16 " wide right there on the tx at that speed.
Taxi to the white centerline,heading into the direction you choose to take off.
Now,we're only going to taxi,until the tail comes up,by itself,but you gotta stay on the center line!! When the throttle is right to get the tail up...Mark that spot on the tx......Another NUMBER!
Last edited by epoxyearl; Mar 29, 2012 at 05:48 PM. Reason: punctuation
Mar 29, 2012, 05:25 PM
Bellanca Kruesair
epoxyearl's Avatar
What we've done so far is get two points established.One is to taxi on the tailwheel at low speed,and second, is transition to tail up taxiing at a higher speed,where rudder control enters the equation.
Somebody just told me to change the 'lime' stripe to flour...Lime's hard on aluminum....Okay Flour it is.!
Fun time! Taxi back and forth the runway,stirrin' up flour dust until you're staying ON the centerline. Remember that speed-tail up, but no flying.
Lesson over.....go fly! Next time we'll complete a take-off or two.
Last edited by epoxyearl; Mar 30, 2012 at 06:27 AM.
Mar 30, 2012, 06:51 AM
Bellanca Kruesair
epoxyearl's Avatar
We joined a discussion in another thread,about using rudder on take off.
Airplanes simply want to turn left on acceleration,and we don't want them to.
Right rudder,equal to the amount of left turn,will make your airplane go straight.
I expect a pilot to be able to fly his airplane without the use of gyros or auto-pilots,so rudder is a requirement.
Earlier,we discussed taxi and tail-up speeds.Now we want to discuss distances.When you power up to the tail up speed,make a mental mark on the runway,at the point the tail is Full up.Probably wouldn't hurt to put some flour there too,highly visible.
That mark will be your code for smoothly increasing to full throttle........
Didja' see what we did there? We went from taxi speed to tail high,then on to full throttle.Torque doesn't play much of a role in taxi.much. When you accelerate to tail up,which doesn't require FULL throttle,you steer the aircraft with rudder to keep it on center,establishing a straight line.. Aircraft inertia will now help keep it straight as you enter full throttle torque.
Latest blog entry: I'm a 'whiner'
Mar 30, 2012, 07:09 AM
Bellanca Kruesair
epoxyearl's Avatar
And another thing.....You begin the take-off roll at the beginning of the runway ,not half way down it. Heavy aircraft don't want to be hurried,so start with as much runway in front of you as possible.
Realism....Smooth taxi,into takeoff attitude,full power into liftoff and don't climb into a loop!! Establish a 5 or 10 degree climb line,and take a few seconds to retract the gear,keeping the steering line straight.Neutralize the flaps and come back on the throttle some....Just so I can tell you did it.Finally,at least 500 feet from the end of the runway,make your first turn away from the field.
That could be worth ten points.
Last edited by epoxyearl; Mar 31, 2012 at 05:31 PM. Reason: change wording
Mar 30, 2012, 07:17 AM
dusty bible = dirty life
Majortomski's Avatar
Good thoughts so far with two comments.

Take offs start at the BEGINNING of a runway, not the end of the runway, the over run and grass are at the end of the runway. We land X number of feet past the BEGINNING of the runway.

I'm assuming the tape marks on your transmitter are for your personal training purposes only. If you become dependant on them then you are glancing down and eyes off the plane at critical points of the T-O roll. So while in training we push up till the tail's up then glance to see if we've hit the mark, or am I mis understaning this?
Mar 30, 2012, 08:11 AM
Bellanca Kruesair
epoxyearl's Avatar
Point taken .....take off at the Beginning of the runway !!
Mar ks on my transmitter are equivilent to instruments in a full scale aircraft....I look at them with periphal vision,but I can glance at them with out destroying a take-off,also.
When you become comfortable with a particular model,as I have,the take-off sequence becomes auto matic.What I'm attempting to do here,is apply marks for a different model,that are repeatable..'-When you're at this mark,you can expect THIS to happen'
If you choose a different approach,suit yourself.As long as your results match what you need,marking is moot..
Latest blog entry: I'm a 'whiner'
Mar 30, 2012, 08:15 AM
Bellanca Kruesair
epoxyearl's Avatar
Originally Posted by Majortomski
Good thoughts so far with two comments.

Take offs start at the BEGINNING of a runway, not the end of the runway, the over run and grass are at the end of the runway. We land X number of feet past the BEGINNING of the runway.

I'm assuming the tape marks on your transmitter are for your personal training purposes only. If you become dependant on them then you are glancing down and eyes off the plane at critical points of the T-O roll. So while in training we push up till the tail's up then glance to see if we've hit the mark, or am I mis understaning this?
Clarity-we mark so we don't go PAST the tail up speed.....Not enough power to take off.We're practising high speed TAXI,only.
Latest blog entry: I'm a 'whiner'
Mar 30, 2012, 10:06 AM
Registered User
The PIPE's Avatar

Watchin' the aircraft's BEHAVIOR during takeoff helps a lot, too...

Dear Epoxyearl:

The PIPE a chapter exam for my online retailing business class later today, so before I've GOT to get to that, just a few observations on having a heavy wing loading aircraft...even though I've had virtually none of my own in the past!

With the types of built-in physical challenges I've had in my life, long ago (1977) I found that I'm one of those RCers who CANNOT take a plane up on a takeoff roll across my field of vision, and ever expect to keep it straight - I do my best takeoffs when I've got the plane idling at my FEET, and take off straight away from myself ONLY. That way, it's much easier to keep a close track on how the plane's behaving on the takeoff roll, and since my favorite scale aircraft date from the World War I & Golden Age eras...before aircraft started to "fly on the prop", and were much more the "fly on the wing" type of aircraft choices have been much slower flying aircraft, which ARE much easier to "stay ahead" of, and as a result are much more relaxing to enjoy flying to start with-and yes, indeed, I'd always prefer to fly those with FOUR stroke engines.

Also, from some of those same sorts of minor "challenges" as to how my motor skills work (usually a tiny bit slower than almost anyone else) I also found very quickly that the "knobby" design of RC transmitter - the one with the single joystick, and the rotating KNOB atop that single joystick - is the best one for me to be using. The "knobby" sort of Tx user interface also allows ALL THREE aerodynamic control to be on one hand , with a separate throttle lever on the side of the Tx case. Those sorts of radios haven't been commercially made for just over two decades now, so I've been building all my own knobby radios since I started flying RC in the late 1970s.

Still, when I found out that a lifting airfoil tail-equipped design...whether it was sport RC aircraft like the Telemaster (like my late RC flight instructor's own Sr. Telly in the early 1980s), or the Fleet biplane that I DO still have the model of (a scratchbuilt 1/6th scale Fleet 16B Finch, built in 1980-81) clearly lifted ITS tail to show when it was ready to take off, or wanted to keep its tail high in doing a "wheel landing" that the Fleet seemed to effortlessly do every time I landed it properly...I easily adjusted to those behaviors, and used the "tail-up" behavior on takeoff to let me know it was time to start feeding in back-stick to GENTLY lift the plane off the ground and into a climb-out.

For someone like myself, where I'm ONLY flying with a knobby radio, you AUTOMATICALLY have the rudder "right at hand" with the knob controlling it. So, during takeoff, feeding in the proper rudder inputs becomes second nature, and where the throttle IS on the separate lever on the Tx's side, controlling IT in a scale manner becomes easier with a knobby box, too...just like a full-scale aircraft.

Many people CAN manage just fine with the traditional dual-joystick setup on a Tx for RC aircraft flying, but some of us canNOT...I'm one of those who can't, and as no surprise, a goodly number of my fellow members of the Yahoo MicroPro/MicroStar RC radio user group at have either a substantial preference, or an exclusive desire, to stick to using "knobby", single-stick RC transmitters for either most or ALL of their RC flying enjoyment.

It's likely to be quite a while before I can get back to work, and then can once again afford to get back to activity in our least until then, I DO practice my RC flight skills with my one usable MicroStar 2000 encoder-based knobby radio (built in 2003) controlling the "virtual aircraft" in my copy of the Aerofly Pro Deluxe flightsim on my PC from time to time, so I'm not letting myself get "rusty on the stick'n'knob" anytime soon.

Got to get back to prepping for that online chapter graduation with the business degree is coming up in June!

Yours Sincerely,

The PIPE....!!
Mar 30, 2012, 10:56 AM
Bellanca Kruesair
epoxyearl's Avatar
Pipe- good to hear from you.
The essence of this training
forum is to develop confidence that a pilot is in control of his aircraft,rather than the opposite.
I necessarily frown on tailgating the model,as we aren't allowed to do so at contests..
It doesn't really matter whether you single -stick or two stick,as long as you're aware of the rudder.....and what it does.
My advanced flight model instructer would move all the trims to uncoordinated flight,then demand a contest calibre flight,without my making any adjustments....Man I could 'sneeze' a snaproll..His motive....put me in charge of the aircraft.....At no time did the model co-operate with my intentions.But somewhere,one day,a peace came over me,and I started challenging the airplane
"is that the best you can do?" Hit me with your best shot!"
Latest blog entry: I'm a 'whiner'
Mar 30, 2012, 11:16 AM
Bellanca Kruesair
epoxyearl's Avatar
Are we ready to fly yet? I had a flight on a John Clark 10' Spitfire that ended up badly.It had twin Quadra 50ccEngines in tandem,and a great large 3 bladed prop installed on the front.Nothing but power.
Howsomever,at the point of rotation,a throttle connection snapped,leaving me in a precarious situation.1 engine went to idle power,forcing the other to turn it,and try to power the aircraft also.Here I am flying in ground effect,with my brain spooling down,considering the posssibilities. It's flying,so nurse it back....retract the gear,and climb if it will.-we're flying at about 1 knot above stall.that devil wouldn't climb!!We're flying,but not climbing.I could rotate the nose up,maybe 3 degrees,but it wouldn't go UP! Flaps up,and down she went.
Had never heard of ground effect until the aftermath discussion.My layman definition is'air is slightly compressed at a certain distance fron the airplane to the ground.This compressed air can support the aircraft....but if you get out of it,the airplane falls' totally insane.
Latest blog entry: I'm a 'whiner'
Mar 30, 2012, 11:27 AM
Registered User
The PIPE's Avatar

Sorry, but the way the Lord put me together, tail-view takeoffs ARE my best choice!

Dear Epoxyearl:

The PIPE Here again - as the heading suggests, I found out quite a long time ago that the good Lord didn't "quite put me together" like everyone else. As a result, I'm not able to touch-type ("I. HAVE. TO. LOOK."- at the keyboard while using it - this goes for typing on a PC, or playing music with a keyboard) , not able to ride a bike, or to go ice-skating, and a number of other things that many other people seem to do with such ease, from the way my brain has to work (a tiny bit slower than most) and slower motor skills, that can't allow me to do everything the exact same way that everyone else is able to do them.

Perhaps "tail-view takeoffs" might not be "kosher" for some RC contests, but as I'm also prone to getting really ILL (dizzy and glassy-eyed, as well as general physical weakness) from summertime heat and humidity (above 85F heat indices, and/or above 65F dew points) from a case of nearly hospital-grade heatstroke in 1980, it would also be clearly unsafe for me to be flying much of the time in July and August - when most RC flying contests occur, so I'd not even be at most flying events, with the exception of the early September Old Rhinebeck RC Jamboree - and even for that one, when it wasn't hot and muggy.

As a result, when it's COOLER outdoors, I usually wait until the runway would be completely clear of other aircraft, then use either end (or corner) of the pilot's safety area (right AT the flightline) to stand behind when I'm ready to take my plane up (it's right beyond the flightline, basically still AT my feet before the takeoff roll starts), take up the plane diagonally at about a 15-20 angle away from the flightline (towards the far side of the runway) into the air, then head back completely into the pilot's station area from its forwardmost edge after my plane's safely up, to enjoy the flight through to landing.

Also, from the fact that I've also got a pair of total hip replacements ("installed" in 2000 & 2006), which ARE well-healed into place for life, I also DO have to move around just a small bit every so often (never more than a step or two) within the pilot's safety area behind the flightline, and not standing "stock-still" in just one place at a fixed pilot's station behind the flightline.

I HAD to figure out how I could politely enjoy how I have to fly my aircraft, with the slightly differing ways I've got to use in enjoying the hobby, and the simple adoption of courtesy IN the need to do those things differently, as required, and being very patient, polite and courteous in doing them seems to work wonders in being at the flying site when it comes time to go flying.

Autumn, winter and spring are GREAT times to enjoy the hobby (I LOVE to fly off SKIS in the winter!) just at one's club flying site (and not much at all in events away from my club's field), and by being polite and courteous in how I take my planes up, allows me to enjoy the hobby in the "differing ways" in how I'm put together, and my general physical condition (also from the heatstroke and hip replacements) that require that I do things just a tiny bit differently from most of us.

Have to head for lunch, and then the chapter test online...

Yours Sincerely,

The PIPE....!!
Last edited by The PIPE; Mar 30, 2012 at 11:33 AM.
Mar 30, 2012, 01:38 PM
Bellanca Kruesair
epoxyearl's Avatar
Until this point in time ,I had no idea you were handicapable.
Our requirement that a pilot not stand on the runway is safety oriented.
If you need to do so to fly,and you want to compete,have at it.Ask the Contest Director for a waiver and see where it goes.If you come to our field to fly,I gaurantee you'll be accomodated.
I've never challenged the rules at a contest,and I'm not even sure there IS a rule governing where you stand......I know there are suggested pilot stations for safety,so a rules investigation would be in order.
If you can stand a man on the runway to hold a pole for limbo flying at fun flys,
there shouldn't be a problem here,I'd think.
In -put anyone? SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS only !

Totally smart alec remark...where the hell do you stand when you LAND? lol.
Latest blog entry: I'm a 'whiner'
Mar 30, 2012, 02:14 PM
Registered User
The PIPE's Avatar

Don't worry, it's all COURTESY driven at all times!

Dear Epoxyearl:

The PIPE here with a short reply...

...all the things I do to fit myself in with a local club's safety roles are always driven by the need for courtesy and politeness at all times, as I've found quite some time ago that "courtesy is its own best 'safety officer' "... IF one has to do things in a slightly different way because of things they cimply cannot change about themselves, being courteous and polite about it the entire time REALLY makes it easier to fit in, in almost any situation.

Also, I DO like flying early, as early as I can during the day...nowadays that DOES mean getting at least a few electric powered aircraft into one's hangar, as my local club at that I flew with from 2001-03, and will again once I'm back to fulltime work after graduating with my new business degree from my online college courses, only lets us operate fueled engine-powered models (like with my four stroke mills) from 8 am onwards...

...that's why my interest in having a few SAM-style "Old Timer" RC-assist free flight models with "brushless & A123s" electric power is something I'm looking forward to, with a rebuild of the plane I built in the early 1980s (whose plans are FREELY AVAILABLE online at ) , and a pair of new ones that I'd like to build, in the Flying Aces Rambler (CAD plans for it are being drawn on my PC whenever I've got the time) and Carl Goldberg-designed Comet Clipper Mk.I (plans from AMA for that one, to be ordered when I'm back at work), would be a blast to take up at those just-after-sunrise early hours at the Wingbusters field in Halifax, MA.

Got to get back to my studying for that online chapter test...

Thanks and Yours Sincerely,

The PIPE....!!
Last edited by The PIPE; Mar 30, 2012 at 06:43 PM.
Mar 31, 2012, 08:21 AM
Bellanca Kruesair
epoxyearl's Avatar
Okay- here we are flying at altitude (400') or so,and we're gonna practice slow flight.
We don't have any way of knowing how slow this baby'll fly,so let's find out!
Back off the throttle to the high speed taxi mark .Somewhere between pulling the throttle back and letting it slow down,put in some flaps.
Now one of three things will happen....It'll balloon like crazy,'ll drop it's nose,....or it'll just slow down.
I'd like it to be at the flap setting you want to use,so go to YOUR full flap setting,and maintain level flight..It's okay to have some throttle,if you're uncomfortable at lower speeds.
Now that we've slowed down,drop the gear.,and we'll be in landing mode,but we don't intend to land.
Fly a couple of circuits maintaining level flight,banking gently (15 deg) and coming back a click at a time on the throttle. Stay at altitude,though.
You'll notice the nose is higher now,than you're used to....Don't jerk it around now ,you're near the stall,and it may snap on it's back.
Challenge yourself to use gentle in puts,and to go as slow as you can.
When it does stall,you need to note the throttle setting,before immediately powering up....Another number....Nose down first,throttle up second,gently ease out of the stall ,or snap,whatever it did,and recover.lesson over....go flying.
Latest blog entry: I'm a 'whiner'

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