My First FP Helicopter Walkera CB180D Crashing badly - Page 6 - RC Groups
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Apr 18, 2012, 06:54 PM
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Unfortunately parts are cheap enough I can rebuild it for $20..
It's going to remain an orientation trainer.
It's nice for nose and slow maneuver practice indoors.
And is MUCH different than a coaxial.
I'm on the CP every day now.. flew um -ER hovered & creeped in 15Mph wind gusts today.
Not easy at all.
Lots of major pucker.
Really close to crashing.. but not quite..
Still very much on the training balls.. there were a few that would have tipped without 'em.
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Apr 19, 2012, 04:33 PM
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Steve the absolutely newbie strikes again! (but in a good way).
I thought I'd try blogging about this on my RC Groups blog page instead of further derailing
this tread that's supposed to be about crashing a CB180.
It was an eye opening day for me on the CP Heli.
If interested or want to help *please* read it here on RCG at:
You might get a good laugh at my 'success' as it seems to be.
I very much appreciate all of the help sharing of experience(s) and wisdom shared here.
Apr 19, 2012, 05:23 PM
Cranky old fart
Balr14's Avatar
I checked out your blog today; saw your picture, too. Damn, the things you see when you don't have a gun!
Apr 19, 2012, 06:59 PM
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Haha!! :-)
Apr 21, 2012, 03:32 PM
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As this thread is coming to an end.. I'll destroy it's track even more with this chuckle:

I wonder if the guy who thought of it was able to buy his dream home and a few premium
real life helicopters with it. :-)

I hope to sometime soon.
Apr 21, 2012, 03:33 PM
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Ages 8-10
I don't qualify.
Apr 21, 2012, 04:20 PM
Cranky old fart
Balr14's Avatar
Originally Posted by N8LBV
As this thread is coming to an end.. I'll destroy it's track even more with this chuckle:

I wonder if the guy who thought of it was able to buy his dream home and a few premium
real life helicopters with it. :-)
I think the guy who thought of that should be looking for a lobotomy!
Apr 21, 2012, 10:15 PM
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Oh yes!
And a DIY Labotomy Kit, (mirrors and anithetic not included) at that!
Apr 23, 2012, 11:52 PM
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RealFlight is pretty awesome.
I've been flying some of the fixed pitch helis in simulated gusty wind and I simulated
no gyro by routing the tail servo right to CH4.

It's a VERY fun and exciting experience.

My copy's pretty ancient, I need to go purchase a newer up to date copy of 6.
The simulated wind weather is miles ahead of clearview for sure.
No gyro is fun. I truly enjoy flying the tail.
May 03, 2012, 04:42 PM
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Here's someone else what took a decent video with EXACTLY the same Problem I've
Always had with it.
MH300 quick test (1 min 7 sec)
May 03, 2012, 06:26 PM
Cranky old fart
Balr14's Avatar
Yep, it's coax death dive!
May 04, 2012, 09:54 AM
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Really ticks me off after paying $155 initially for it and then another $100+ in parts over time trying to make this piece of crap work.
May 04, 2012, 11:53 AM
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And I was completely NOT wanting a coaxial when I bought this thing.
I'll try a lighter flybar or start grind stock of the weights.
Seems nobody's really tried/documented this on this head type yet.

I'm still trying to find any really good write-up/docs on 45deg. flybars.
Lots of speculation but not found any GOOD explanations.
May 04, 2012, 01:17 PM
Cranky old fart
Balr14's Avatar
I have explained this many times and this is a GOOD explanation. Gyroscopic precession dictates that it takes 90 of rotation for an action to take effect. This is basic physics and is not open to discussion. In other words, from the point where the swashplate is moved by the servo, it takes 90 for this action to be felt. That is why a typical heli head design uses a 90 flybar.

With the flybar at 45 from the point where action is initiated, it will be missed until the next cycle. This means the rotor head will receive the signal first and react accordingly. The flybar will receive the signal after the head has already moved. The flybar is typically used to influence head movement, so it's at 90 and the rotor head is 90 later. But, in the case of a 45 flybar, you can't use it to influence head movement, as it's too late.

What Nine Eagles did with the 45 flybar heli was use a Bell linkage and mix it with the "late" flybar, to damp head movement. That's why it has weights instead of paddles; you don't want paddles on a flybar that's still positioned where the head was before it moved. Nine Eagles patented this design and all other 45 flybar helis copied (stole) it.

The 45 offset creates an out-of-phase condition, essentially a medium point between two "in-phase" 90 points. This provides values you can mix with the in-phase values to further smooth or damp movement. This applies to any out-of-phase values, not just 45. There have been heli head designs that used everything from 30 to 89.

Bell linkage is very fast and directly linked to the rotor head. Without the late 45 flybar to mix, it can be quite unruly; think flybarless. Removing weight is possible but one must be very careful.
May 04, 2012, 02:27 PM
Registered User
Yes, this is awesome and a very fun subject for me.
I need to take some time and work a bit to get my head around your great explanation
and play around with it in the lab too.

I've flown with no flybar and no electronic stabilization.
Well not sure if you would call it flying.
Unruly is a good choice of words.

Speaking of unruly I really like this guy's approach to fixing the MadHawk 300
MVI_0914.AVI (1 min 33 sec)

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