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Jul 01, 2019, 10:58 PM
The best in EDF since 2005
Extreme_RC's Avatar
Of course, there are no wrong answers! I just posted it as you mentioned not spending resources on electric due to budget, I know it used to be we were spending $400+ on a large outrunner not to mention the ESC's! and batteries were costly for essentially low power, these days the same factories that made/make the hacker/hyperion etc motors are pumping out the same thing with generic labels and they really are bloody good for the money!

Personally I would love to stick the FG60 into this model, I don't mind gas at all, even the cost of the engine is not a total killer, its more the worry that I wont get it running well and it blows cylinders apart Having to buy timing parts, timing kits to redo it with the new parts, order a kelso ring, it all gets time consuming and adds up to a pretty big investment. Also I need to fuel proof the model, and deal with the mess which I really hate!

My plan is to get a sound module, then build a decent transducer system so it really does sound loud and impressive in the air.
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Jul 02, 2019, 04:14 AM
teamwork, do it my way!
Yep, each to his own...

Our Seafury, as mentioned, has had, electric, 2-stroke & 4-stroke radial powerplants...

The electric variant had a sound system (El Cheapo)...and sounded fantastic on the ground. In the air....not so much.
2-stroke variant...had a starter! flew well, had a great 'whoooosh' to it from the 4 blade prop, but there was always that irritating 'garden implement' sound that followed it about..
4-stroke radial variant...we have stood and watched it idle for half a tank...lol! Then flew it and stood watching (along with all the others at the club) as it thunders by on a low pass....then back to the pits, where we watch it idle the tank dry....

....just sayin'...lol!

As for the UMS...as I understand it, it was the old SEIDEL engine design, which they acquired from Siedel who went in a different direction. UMS started making the glow EVO series radials (not the 2T EVO engines) and have since stopped production for EVO. Now they make gas and glow versions of their engines. Recently they have (under consultation from some relevant people) made some changes to their range, and improved the design of many of their components, for reliability.

These are not just converted and in fact, even the old EVO radials used the crankcase to distribute fuel/air mix so they dont have to rely on 'blow-by' for lube. THis is a BIG difference between them and Saito. Saito's are 100% converted glow engines.

Veered a little off topic there, and my comments are my understanding, I may be wrong....

....but this plane NEEDS a noisy, smelly, oily radial!
Jul 02, 2019, 04:48 AM
The best in EDF since 2005
Extreme_RC's Avatar
Shuddup Cathurga! I don't want to hear (pardon the pun) how good it sounds or how sexy it is on low flybys, I already know its sexy with a radial! Godamnit now I am thinking about it again....
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Jul 02, 2019, 05:15 AM
What could possibly go wrong?
Some great posts guys, very informative. I have to say without the electric revolution the whole hobby might be looking pretty sorry, that's what sells a lot of models and keeps the clubs open. This model still seems like a pretty good choice from what's out there for all power types. . Getting an engine like that is a big commitment definitely, but one I'm hoping to manage
Jul 15, 2019, 07:25 AM
What could possibly go wrong?
Cathurga, I've seen a couple of those on-board sound systems for electric models at our club but I don't think they're really for me. For one thing I'm a live sound engineer and I would find it difficult to hear it as anything but a sound system, and not the illusion of a classic radial. Secondly I've seen those things get it wrong and it's more amusing than impressive. For instance, there was a P-51 that took off while its sound system was still playing the sample for engine start up, so it's going whine-(for the starter)-cough-splutter-chug like an Allison V-12 turning over, while the plane itself has already taken off and is doing all kinds of tricks in the air.
I don't mind models sounding like a model. If they're electric you get prop noise and a slight motor sound too; let a 2-stroke sound like a 2-stroke (blehh) and so on. And radials and other multi's still sound great, but you really have to pay for it!
I've been interested in the Black Horse Sea Fury for a while now, and now I'm committing to the Saito FA-325R5D I'm still very interested in installing it in this model. It'd be my first ARF too (yes, not only am I an IC snob but I'm one of those guys who's been avoiding ARF's too). Trouble is, the price keeps going up. Originally I could find it in the mid- to high-$600's (Australian dollars), now it's more like $800. It sounds like it's worth investing in the better retracts too, I've heard several reports of problems with the standard set, though they might do better with the lighter power plant options. So it's still a great deal but you have to be aware how it can add up. All the same I still think it's the model I want first to fly that 5-cylinder Saito when I get it.
Jul 15, 2019, 07:35 AM
The best in EDF since 2005
Extreme_RC's Avatar
The stock retracts just need my electric conversion, they work fine after that. My sequencer setup works 100% doors and retracts, my SeaFury is 8.3kg with 10s5000mah packs in it, well over what they quote in the specs, flies like a pussycat, lands at a jog and so far undercarriage holding up fine.

As for the kit, email me when you are ready, I am sure I can sort you out with the best price.
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Jul 15, 2019, 08:25 AM
What could possibly go wrong?
Extreme_RC, Cool, that sounds good. Can you estimate a price for the conversion here or should I PM you? Getting the kit depends on the engine, which I want to secure the money for first before I invest in a model if I'm not sure yet about getting the engine. But, absolutely, yes I will get in touch about it at the time, probably late in the year. To be honest I would also speak to the hobby store locally here that I frequently deal with but by all means if your price is competitive I'd be interested. Thanks for the post.
EDIT the 325r5 is 2.4 kg by itself, that might not include the exhaust or it might just be short stacks and not the full ring exhaust, plus some extra for a throttle linkage, fuel lines/filling point/filters/clunk/tank etc. It's a straight out guess but let's say that came to another 1kg over your electric install, so another 12% heavier. Significant but not a deal breaker and that engine will haul it I'm sure. For such a fancy power plant a nice handling, easy to land model is just what I want, plus it'll look good and suit the radial. I was originally thinking of the FA-200 for it, it's lighter (and a lot cheaper) of course but power might be a bit modest for an engine this size. 2.0 ci is about 33cc and for a model that wants a 35cc petrol 2-stroke I don't think a 3-cyl. 4-stroke glow is going to match that spec. Even with CDI you'd only expect maybe 10% more power, possibly a touch more... you *might* get there with that engine on spark, but the equivalent glow 4-stroke single should probably be about 40cc. The Saito FG-36 (petrol version of the FA-220 which is now discontinued) is rated for 3.0 hp, the FA-220a for 3.5. That's a pretty typical difference between petrol and glow power in the otherwise same engine; i would think you'd want about that 3.5hp for a good flight with this plane. The 325r5 can do 3.8hp, though with more weight on it, and that should be healthy enough. Neither of them, and I reckon neither a 35cc 2-stroke petrol engine, will give it 3d-like climb but you don't want that in this type of warbird IMO.
Last edited by BernardW; Jul 15, 2019 at 08:44 AM.
Jul 15, 2019, 05:08 PM
The best in EDF since 2005
Extreme_RC's Avatar
Batteries 1300g, motor 850g, ESC 220g, additional wiring etc 100g, spinner nut 150g, that's 2.6kg odd right there.
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Jul 16, 2019, 06:45 AM
What could possibly go wrong?
Those are a little higher than I would have guessed but I don't have any experience with electric power that size. Actually 2.4 for the engine doesn't sound too bad, and since posting I read that the figure includes the 5-point glow harness and whatever exhaust is supplied.
Aug 01, 2019, 04:19 AM
Serving the Motherland
Moskva's Avatar
Hi all,

Ive just came accross this thread, ive attached some photos of my Black Horse Sea Fury running a Saito FG60cc R3.

Such a great looking aircraft!
Aug 01, 2019, 09:18 AM
teamwork, do it my way!
Looks just like my mate Mike’s!

What dimensions is the prop?
Aug 01, 2019, 06:07 PM
The best in EDF since 2005
Extreme_RC's Avatar
Good to see the robart wheels on there! The soft tyres make such a difference in how it rolls, you can tell just from wheeling it out to the flight area how much different it is.

Whats your AUW and what size tank are you running with the Saito? I am still contemplating removing all the electric gear and going gas so I have one sexy model in the fleet
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Aug 02, 2019, 01:15 AM
Serving the Motherland
Moskva's Avatar
Its a bela 20x10, the RPM is good but dont think i could run any bigger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathurga
Looks just like my mate Mike’s!

What dimensions is the prop?
Aug 02, 2019, 01:29 AM
Serving the Motherland
Moskva's Avatar
Your not wrong its just glides over the grass with the wheel upgrade.
From memory it comes in around 8 - 9kg fully loaded but ill weigh it again on the weekend, im running a 12oz / 360ml tank its plenty enough

I hear you I only own 2 petrol planes in my fleet and this is one of them. its cheap as chips and you can fly all day on a couple of $$ of fuel and the fg60 sounds like heaven. I just like starting it up to hear it idle lol.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreme_RC
Good to see the robart wheels on there! The soft tyres make such a difference in how it rolls, you can tell just from wheeling it out to the flight area how much different it is.

Whats your AUW and what size tank are you running with the Saito? I am still contemplating removing all the electric gear and going gas so I have one sexy model in the fleet
Aug 08, 2019, 03:48 AM
Serving the Motherland
Moskva's Avatar
I just made a quick video of my FG60 warming up

Black Horse Sea Fury - Saito FG60 R3 (2 min 1 sec)


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