Your posts have been very very helpful. 7 switch with one 3X would be enough. Side sliders would be great but one can manage without for $60.
What glider pilots look for is different from most power plane pilots. Your understanding and response just pushed my research over the edge. I will be doing the summary and taking this to my club.
Thanks to you and to everyone else who has taken the time to answer my unending questions.
Oh, and keep it coming. More information is always better.
Last edited by aeajr; Mar 26, 2012 at 08:43 AM.
ER9X also has very flexible timers. You can use anything you want to trigger them. They can count up or down and beep or not to beep every minute and final. On my electric models I use two timers: one to count up the total flight time and the other to count down motor time ( On full throttle it counts sec/sec and on part throttle it tics slower based on throttle position).
As for the original question: Can the ER9X be used for full house glider? My opinion is yes. I would even say better than many much more expensive radios.
I have been working this research project for several months now. I will be writing two articles for our club newsletter.
The first article will be based on the FrSky module system for upgrading 72 MHz radios. The reports have been outstanding.
The other will be about the FlySky TH9X, Turnigy 9X and the other variants, particularly as it relates for use in sailplanes. I have received so many excellent reports about this system that it is clear that this radio, in its upgraded form, can handle the needs of sport glider pilots as well as entry to midrange contest pilots. If you are going for world champ status, this radio may not be for you, but maybe it is. You certainly won't get an sponsorships, but at this price you probably would not need them.
Here is one report I received that was posted on another forum. I have plenty more, but not quite as details as this one.
Posted by Scott on RCU
I have upgraded to ER9X (never even tried stock).
I used the Smartieparts adapter board
I installed the RS-232 converter to get real time telemetry
and I use FrSky telemetry...
I wish I could answer your questions regarding the stock firmware but I can't as on day one I moved to ER9X. I only use these radios now on my sailplanes (electric and at most valued to $1K) and as you, fly them way out although I am sight limited and doubt I made it 1/2 mile.
In any case, the 9x/FrSky system I describe below will tell you when you are getting out of RANGE!. (PS - in addition to my gliders which I consider near priceless as they are not available anymore AND I dont have time to build much, I also fly a F27 Stryker, a 50" Edge 540, and small 3D Foamies so this is a versatile system).
I would not recommend that anyone take these radios and use out of the box like you would a Futaba. First of all, manufacturing on these is not to Futaba or Hitec quality. The design and "parts" internally are good, the circuit boards are very well done, but the point to point wiring can be poor as it appears to be manually done by "cheap" labor. That being said, if you (or a buddy) are not afraid to take the back off and check/repair the wiring (one frayed connection on one joint of my 2 transmitters). I personally would not use one of these without a complete inspection and remedy which can be done in 30 min or less. I believe this same frayed wire issue has effected some well known brands - but not Futaba...
But, this is not that big a deal to inspect (I know it probably sounds bad). Oh by the way, while the back is off? you put Steven's smartieparts non-solder board to allow the flash of the firmware, USB connectivity with your PC and provide a backlight at same time.
The battery holder is utter rubbish and has to be replaced with decent battery - like a LiFe then you dont' worry about that. But pay careful attention, you can put the connector in wrong and trash the radio.
I have completely switched to FrSky 2.4GHz RF solution with telemetry. I trust these like I do Futaba (take them out of the box and use them). On the
6 channel telemetry receiver - I use hot glue to retain the antennas as they are plugged in (so you can swap different length units in).
I only use these radios now (all others retired) and I can do things with this very few others can regardless of their purchase price...
1) I can connect any channel (throttle, rudder, etc) to any servo number on the receiver. When for example, when using crow, I can set it up the way I want with whatever servo on whatever input.
2) I can mix whatever input with any other channel (add, sub, mul)
3) I can use "curves" on my elevator compensation when motor is on (as opposed to the linear)
4) I also have put in the telemetry mod so I can read telemetry ON the 9x display - the default is you get warning beeps from the RF module when voltage or RSSI (received signal strength at the receiver) is low.
5) Oh yes, one of the telemetry inputs is an ALTITUDE sensor, not very useful for flying the glider as you need to keep on the glider, but your buddy can read it!
6) I can offload all models from transmitter to my PC, simulate them there, modify them (EEPE) and then put them back in transmitter. The transmitter can store about 10-16 models - depending on their complexity.
So, why do I like this radio? Well if you can get past the manufacturers issues with quality (which is not hard work to remedy), you can modify this radio to do ANYTHING from a SW perspective. The first thing is to install a board that is solderless - it mounts on the right pins and permits the following;
1) the ability to upgrade the firmware, 2) the ability to pull plane/models from your PC to the transmitter and back (this is HUGE - you can have 10+ models in memory, but an INFINITE number of models on your computer - think about that), 3) the ability to put a backlight on the display (not that important - but some people want).
On top of this, the SW is open source, so if you feel you want to change it - you can. The gentleman that creates the SW I use goes by the name Erazz (and others) and has simply done a wonderful job with the firmware. Let me give some examples of why I like the firmware.
Dodgson (1987 vintage) Windsong 134" - single servo for flap, independent servos for ailerons (so a 3 servo wing), electric hybrid (got tired of winch time delay in setting up, etc - I am too old to futz with the transport, setup, maint, broken lines, tangled lines, always downwind)
1) Motor thrust compensation - These motors pull like "heck" and they generate a large pitching moment due to the speed of the wing - so I put in a "mix" that introduced down elevator as a function of throttle. This is a "curve", not just a linear multiplier!!!!! So at 50% throttle, not much down elevator, at 75% some down elevator, at 100% about the same as 75%.. but You can make it what you want.
Oh yea, because the pitching moment doesn't occur right away, I put in a filter that slows the pitch command to the elevator servo. Also, when I remove the motor power, I want the servo to slowly move back to neutral (not instantly which would generate a pitch up movement by itself since this mix is applying down elevator). I just recently decided to do this and I like it.
2) Ail to rudder mix - just like the original, I use a little linear mixing of Ail to Rudder.
3) Flap operation - I use a 3 position switch that controls the flaps. I have the flaps drop down slowly and go up slowly to reduce the pitching amplitude. I also use the 3rd position on the switch to reflex (or Crow) the ailerons. Of course I can mix in a "curve" of elevator compensation just for this mix. When I move from position 3 (crow) to position 2, the ailerons move slowly (as they do going up from position 2 (flap) to crow position.).
But if I go from position 3 to 1 - all surfaces move fast to neutral. I like this for landing - come in with flaps, move to 1 and watch it settle as lift is removed quickly.
4) I also use a high expo rate - more now that I am older. In addition, due to the massive thrust of the prop, I change the elevator and rudder "rate" limits (it supports triple rates) limit as a function of throttle position! So for example, at 75% throttle, I limit rudder and elevator to 60% of normal travel.
This helps tame the monster as she is moving out under power. I could do same with ailerons but have not found the need.
5) I use a switch to drop the flaps a "bit" when thermaling (I keep ailerons up but could drop them). Simple enough. Oh by the way, any switch can operate pretty much any command. Also, you can use combinations of switches to set a command or mode.
Of course, travel limits, offsets, etc are all part of the package so no need to mention those. This Transmitter does use all digital trims (which I prefer when moving from plane to plane but I don miss the old mechanical trims for the position feedback while flying).
This is all the mixing I use for the Windsong (the Airtronics Legend I fly is a 4 servo wing but is pretty much the same), but the radio has one more capability worth mentioning. I have switched recently to FrSky 2.4GHz module. Yes this 9x is a modular (JR) radio so you can run FM or any of various 2.4 modules. I used a DIY (solder in) to eliminate a potential failure due to connectors. But with the FrSky, this radio INTEGRATES the telemetry! On MY transmitter's LCD - I can see the voltage of the ESC (typically 5v) as well as a second sensor - right now I have pack voltage. How many times have you flown, then after a long flight you bring it down because you don't know what your pack voltage is? No longer an issue. I should note that I don't personally fly below 50% capacity of a LiPo battery (on purpose anyway). This helps provide me with that confidence.
I need to mention that part of Eraz's package is a PC simulator for the mixing logic. I can try all of the mixes using this PC simulation which is quite cool. All of the mixes, simulator etc are VERY UNIQUE and different - it does require a learning curve but there are forums that provide great support.
There is also a telemetry hub that lets you put in a GPS and altimeter. I bought an altimeter (this one does not require a hub) and have used it - really cool to now see how high my plane is.
Can you tell why I use this Radio? I don't use any other radio due to this one's flexibility. The FrSky RF connection is solid, the telemetry is awesome (I can't go back now as it is much like going from RC to control line) and I trust it. I do a preflight prior to each flight (regardless of radio), range check frequently, inspect planes connections (electrical as well as mechanical fasters on motors, linkages frequently (at least once a year, certainly after any crash). So, I now have a direct measurement of my flight pack voltage (battery V), the RSSI and no longer guess if it is time to land because I am out of battery or out of range.
Here is a link back to the original post:
Additional resources if you are interested in learning more.
I have continued my research on this radio. Interesting approach as an open source platform. If you are interested here are some of the resources I have accumulated. I don't have one, at least not yet, so I can't tell you of my personal experience, but most of the reports I have read of radios purchased AFTER mid 2010 have been very good. Seems a very high percentage of people update the firmware to the ER9X firmware which adds a lot of features and fixes some bugs from the standard software.
For Gliders, Giant Scale and pretty much anything large or expensive people are recommending adding the FrSky module in place of the standard FlySky module.
9X - FlySky/iMax/Turnigy/Eurgle FOR DUMMIES
Quick summary that will explain a lot
Basic Documentation – one version
REVIEWS – HW changed in 2010, so pre 2010 reviews have not been included
– SW updates have occurred via third party updates – see firmware section.
Basic Overviews – high level introductions of the 9X Radio
FlySky 9X review - 2010
RC Model Reivews – 9X – 6-2010
VIDEOS – STANDARD HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE OVERVIEW
FlySky TH9X – How to use - I think this is the basic SW
This looks pretty easy to use. Should meet most people’s needs
Similar with a Turnigy 9X
Turnigy 9X – Review of switches, buttons, etc – based on standard SW
Same as the FlySky Software
VIDEOS - UPDATED SOFTWARE/FIRMWARE - ER9x
The real value of this radio is not in the basic set-up. The strength is the
availability of enhanced software from the open source community. When
you replace the standard software with one of the open source versions
you gain a lot of functionality. ER9X seems to be the most popular one.
These videos demonstrate how the ER9X software works In order to
update the software you need to add the Smartyparts board.
Smartie Parts Programming Board – allows firmware updates and provides backlight for display
Step 1,2,3,4,5 –
Lesson 5 - Setting up a 4 servo wing
Smartie Parts Programming Board – allows firmware updates and provides backlight for display
Modify Turnigy with the FrSky DYI kit
Turnigy 9X with Telemetry
RF REPLACEMENT - FrSKY RF System
Whether used in the 9X or any other radio, the FrSky system is getting rave reviews for
the robust nature of the link, the selection of receivers, the availability of telemetry and
the low price of it all. The modules are available for Futaba, Hitec and JR. And there
is a DIY, do it yourself, solder in option for other brands and non-module radios. From
parkflyer pilots to giant scale and glider pilots, the FrSky system is getting a big thumbs
up! Also FrSky makes Spektrum DSM2 and Futaba FASST compatible receivers and
those are getting good reviews too.
Pilot reports on FrSky – Airtronics, Futaba, JR, ACE and others
FrSky in Supra
Review from 2010
FrSky 2.4GHz spread spectrum RC review
Telemetry - 2010 review
Long Range Reports
FrSky – Looking good so far – HUGE thread
Would you put it in a V50 CC?
FrSky module vs. internal upgrade
RC Model Reviews • View topic - Turnigy 9x v2 - FrSky Module vs DIY
FrSky makes Futaba FASST and Spektrum DSM2 compatible receivers.
Both are getting good reviews. These are specific to the FASST version
but the DSM2 are mentioned
FrSky FASST Compatible Receivers
FrSky FASST Compatibles
Orange Brand (FrSky) FASST Compatible
FrSky FASST compatible Receivers
SOURCES – Hardware
Leader Hobby – Fly Sky TH9X
FlySky makes the radio. Others re-lable and may have different firmware
Turnigy 9X – Hobbyking – USA warehouse – We would not want this one
RF module antenna is wired in. Others have antenna on module making it easy to change to FrSky module
FrSky module and receivers
Telemetry – How to
FIRMWARE – Updating the firmware/software completely transforms the radio.
There are several to choose from but the ER9X seems to be the most popular
Smartie Parts Programming Board – allows firmware updates and provides backlight for display
ER9X firmware – This seems to be the most popular firmware update based on posts I have read
EEPE Eprom Editor for ER9X – video – using computer to set up the radio off-line – cool!
FlySky Firmware Update Instructions – Tons of info on boards, procedures, etc. KAOS seems to be the resident wizard on this
Firmware update instructions from hobbyking – PDF
FlySky 9ch - Flashing Firmware
Other Firmware options ( not ER9X)
Open9X Firmware – Might be more sailplane oriented
TH9X alternate Firmware
gruvin9x - Firmware
FORMS AND DISCUSSION GROUPS SPECIFIC TO THIS RADIO
FrSky has made an important announcement by way of an advisory affecting anyone using their 2-way system telemetry modules and DIY kits with non-telemetry receivers. If this is you then you must read this. This initialization of the GUID needs only be done once, when the module is first used in 1-way mode. Once set, the GUID will be retained and the risk of a Zero GUID situation is eliminated
Discussion – Note user XJet is the guy on RCModelReviews and also performed the IMAX 9 test flight above
Discussion - RC Discuss (RC Discuss talks about this radio a lot) KAOS seems to be resident wizard
Flysky Set-up problems
Discussions – RC Universe
Discussion – Model Flying UK user report
Discussion - RCG
Anyone flying Turnigy 9X for full house sailplanes?
Discussion – Wattflyer
Backlight panel mod
DLG set-up for Turnigy 9X
Alternate main borad for 9X
Use with simulator
Advice I received was to follow this sequence,
1- order 9x from leader hobby,(no wire from module to ant.) – Approx. 65.00 + Shipping including FlySky module and 8 ch receiver. They FlySky system seems fine for smaller planes/parkflyers. Receivers are around $10.
2- Buy and install smartyparts board, 45.00 – allows firmware updates and backlight of display
Trans. battery of your choice 10.00 to 20.00 dollars
Around $150 total with shipping.
For larger planes, or more expensive planes and gliders - Get FrSky module and receiver, approx. 45.00 Receivers $25 to $35.
The stock firmware for the 9x works, but is limited. The ER9X firmware, will probably do everything you would ever want to do.
Last edited by aeajr; Apr 07, 2012 at 10:07 AM. Reason: Updated to add new links
Was your 72 MHz or 2.4 GHz?
I bought one and had such a bad experience with it I gave it away. I spent a lot of time reading the custom firmware thread and the repeated assurances that it would do all the mixes required for full house sailplanes. Although most replies were honest enough to say they did not know what a full house six servo glider needed! It seems that most of the rave reports of it on the thread were related to park flyers and other simple set ups.
I lost a lot of valuable building time messing around with this piece of junk.
However, there are many reports of how good they are? But in all my reading, I never saw one good report which was of a full house, six servo glider set up. Not one! So, I don't know, maybe I just got a dud? And maybe there are no glider flyers using it? (I think there must be in fact!)
I did find several bad reports from people who radios from Pre 2010. Many of those were 72 MHz or the early 2.4 GHz systems. It seems the early ones were pretty bad. But after 2010, when version 2 came out things changed quite a bit.
As you will see in post 36, there are still things that one would want to check when you get it, but if you do the checks, and upgrade the firmware, people are telling me they can program pretty much anything I can do on my Futaba 9C Super and more
Setting up a 4 servo wing
Last edited by aeajr; Apr 06, 2012 at 06:51 PM.
I skimmed though it, only because I have read numerous rave reports about this tx./software (or firmware), smartie board/backlight add-on etc. to know the way its going. Also, I am in no position to dispute the success's that are being claimed as I have only have experience with one of them fitted with all the above by the way. They are far, far too numerous to be all false!
You asked for reports of first hand experiences. I offered mine in good faith!
I doesn't sound like it was received well.
Perhaps I should keep them to myself in future?
Good luck with whatever you choose. Over and out!
Hitting the unsubscribe button.
You said you had not seen a repot of a full house glider. Just pointing out that there was one in the thread and how it would be accomplished. Seems I mistook your comment as request for information.
Sorry if I offended you. Was not ky intent.
Last edited by aeajr; Apr 07, 2012 at 09:30 AM.
I have a six servo electric glider which I have set up with ER9X. I really do not know what you mean by the term full house. I have tried to search but no clear definitions are found. Could you please explain what you need and what you could not do with the radio. Just calling it piece of s**t does not do anything valuable. Did you not get the clue how to program it or was it really lacking the features you need? There is an active open source community around this radio and I would not thing it is a miracle if they would add the features you need if you ask kindly.
The ER9X is by no means "unlimited" in every imaginable way. Lots can be done but the biggest limitation is the atmega64 memory.
Last edited by B12; Apr 07, 2012 at 12:37 PM.
Full house means R/E/A/F. That is full house. And glider pilots prefer to have each of those six servos on a separate channel so they can control them individually for camber and other mixing.
Typically this takes a 7+ channel radio and receiver though some radios can do it on 6. It would seem the FlySky TH9X/Turnigy 9X with ER9X software would be able to do it on 6.
I did receive some help and a proffessional IT friend helped in person to download the problematic file which was necessary to plug the tx. into the computer. I tried for I don't know how long.
I also need to clarify the six servo "full house" glider set up. I was sent examples to copy to get mine to work, but failed to replicate it.
My conclusion was and still is, that I had a faulty unit from the beginning. I don't wish to start documenting all the problems again, they are already described to the best of my ability.
This exchange, like the ones I had on the Turnigy thread, has taught me that one can become very unpopular reporting bad experiences when many others simply rave about the product.
I'm getting off this thread now.
Last edited by Jim.Thompson; Apr 08, 2012 at 04:33 AM. Reason: grammar correction.
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