Thread Tools
Mar 02, 2012, 11:39 AM
My hangar is,... "almost" full
No Step's Avatar
Thread OP
Build Log

Messerschmitt M17


This is going to be a wonderful flying machine. The model will present several challenges for me to work out. There are no plans available for this size of model, so I will have to draw my own. The airfoil is transitional from a very thick, highly undercambered GO535, to a thin semi-symmetrical one at the tip (I chose an E193). It will be skinned with 1/64" ply, with natural Solartex on open structures. The wing (which has no struts) has a very small mount area . And one of the largest hurdles to overcome,... I'm going back to wet power. I'm temporarily leaving the world of electric powered models and going back to wet power. One viewing of the video below will explain why. An electric powered model cannot come near to duplicating this aircraft. I haven't had a wet powered plane for about 20 years. It was an OS 40 4 stroke then. This time will be a 4 stroke as well, in order to hear that wonderful sound on slow flybys. But I'll have to discard the advantages of electric motors, and overlook the reasons I left wet power in the first place. Construction begins today if I can get off this computer .

The 1925 era M17 was one of the first planes built by Willy Messerschmitt and allowed him to build his first factory. In real life, it was the same size as a Fournier RF-4. My model will be 1/4th scale , 114"ws, 58" in length.

You have to view this short video - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Me..._M17_movie.ogg

Fred Guilfoyle
https://home.comcast.net/~guilfoyle72/
.
.
Last edited by No Step; Mar 04, 2012 at 11:02 PM.
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Mar 02, 2012, 11:51 AM
My hangar is,... "almost" full
No Step's Avatar
Thread OP
I just watched that video again for the ump-teenth time. It gets me all excited.
Mar 02, 2012, 01:19 PM
Pronounced "High Duck"
haiduk's Avatar
What a cool project. I'll be watching.
Mar 02, 2012, 02:04 PM
My hangar is,... "almost" full
No Step's Avatar
Thread OP
This posting will bring you up to current status. For a couple weeks, I've been studying pics, a meager 3 view, and 3 very important drawings I found online. Last week, I madly started drafting preliminary drawings to get a "feel " for the model. I use a very old (1997) version of AutoCAD LT. I decided my "preliminary drawings" were good enough to get started with construction. I will make changes as I go along. A red pen has become my friend. I've already found a couple mistakes.
Just a few days ago, I decided if I was thinking of building this machine, I better work on the airfoils. I found out the root section was a GO535, but no tip section was available. I came to the conclusion an E193 looked to be close enough, and would be good for my purposes. I used Compufoil to generate the ribs set, arranged them on digital sheets of balsa, and handed it off to my local flying friend, Haiduk, to mill out for me,.. not lasered. A huge thanks to Haiduk. He did a fantastic job! It saved me lots of work. With those building tabs, I would have had a heck of a time cutting them out by hand. The spar slots, I decided to cut out by hand. I wasn't confident enough of their location to make the commitment. It was a good thing, I found a mistake on the aft spar location.

So, that's where I am today, ready to start.
Mar 02, 2012, 02:13 PM
Pronounced "High Duck"
haiduk's Avatar
This one would look awesome poking through the cowling:

SAITO FA-90TS






... and a few more photos for reference.
Last edited by haiduk; Mar 02, 2012 at 02:27 PM.
Mar 02, 2012, 02:13 PM
Registered User
Fantastic!
Mar 02, 2012, 03:00 PM
My hangar is,... "almost" full
No Step's Avatar
Thread OP
Yeah it's amazing how many pics there are online. Many are of the one, flying, replica. There is one original as well.

This from Wikipedia:........."Only one of the six to eight machines built survived and is today in the Deutsches Museum in Munich. A replica was built by Messerschmitt Foundation (first flight April 14, 2004) and makes regular appearances at the International Aerospace Exhibition in Berlin. It weighs 40 kg (90 lb) more than the original due to additional equipment (radio and rescue system) and is now at the Manching Aviation Museum in Ingolstadt, Bavaria".
Mar 02, 2012, 04:37 PM
No Glow / No ARFs
I'm in shock, Fred is regressing to wet fuel. On the other hand I agree that hearing this thing putt by on a low, slow pass might be worth it.
Mar 02, 2012, 05:00 PM
boat butcher
the goon's Avatar
Very cool subject .

Mark
Mar 02, 2012, 08:42 PM
My hangar is,... "almost" full
No Step's Avatar
Thread OP
OK, I promise not to post a stick by stick diary of the build, but I had to show off my progress today Everything is working out great. The true test will be the tapered outer panels,.. probably start Monday. I'm confident it'll go fine. I'll wait to do the capstrips and LE sheeting until after both panels are done and wing joiners installed.

Btw, that Saito twin 90 would be way too big for this model,......... how-e-v-e-r,.. it'd probably be perfect for a 1/3rd scale version - 153"ws. ....... Too late, I've already started construction.

As far as engine choices are concerned, I'm relying on input from anyone. I've looked at Magnum, O.S., and Saito. As to size, I understand a 52 or 56 would be about right (my lack of experience is showing). I'd love to be able to fly it with a 40, but I don't think it'll come out light enough. As to manufacturer, I've heard good things about all three of them. I had an O.S., I liked it. I like the low price of the Magnum. But to be completely honest, I really like the Saito 40 or 52. I've always liked the looks of them. I guess it's the double rocker covers that does it for me. That's silly I know. I don't want to overpower it. Yet I don't want to underpower it either. It's a slow,slow flying airplane. Finished weight? I have no idea because of the plywood skins, and other factors,... 6 to 8 pounds (96-128 ozs) maximum. I'll decide later. My cowl will fit any mfr, 40, 52, or 56 (1/2" recessed firewall for last two.

... enough I'm done blabbing.
Mar 03, 2012, 02:42 AM
Where's the lift?
dgliderguy's Avatar
Fred,

As a comparison, I am flying the Slingsby T-31M you traded to me, as a glow-powered model now, as you know. It has enough power with a Magnum XL52 to take off from fresh-mown grass and climb at a scale-like rate. Not at all overpowered, but then, the 130" span model weighs 10lbs. I could probably do well with an OS FS-70, but then, it wouldn't fly as scale. The Magnum 52 was the right choice.

Also, I'm flying my 89" Roger Hammer Flamingo with a Saito 56, and it is plenty of motor for the big 6.5lb floater. I typically cruise around with the throttle cracked open a few clicks above idle.

I would recommend any of the three brands. I've owned OS, Saito, Magnum, Thunder Tiger, and HP four-strokes. The Magnums are excellent runners, at half the cost of the Saito and OS.
Mar 03, 2012, 12:06 PM
My hangar is,... "almost" full
No Step's Avatar
Thread OP
Thanks Dgliderguy, I'm >really < torn. I guess I'll either go with the Magnum 52 or Saito 56. I now realize the 40 size (even if the model ended up light enough) would require a 10-11" prop (according to brochures). That's too small for the model. It'd look silly. A scale prop would be 13",... 12 would be OK too.
The Magnum is probably the best choice. But it's hard to turn my back on the quality, and respected name of Saito. I keep thinking about their slogan - " All we build is 4 strokes". If I'm jumping on this wet power wagon, I might as well do it first class. We'll see.

Back to the wing. Fred China if you are watching,... for the wing L.E. sheeting, I'm going to try laminating 1/32" balsa under the 1/64" ply (before application) to prevent a wavy LE when sheeting with just 1/64 ply alone. This would work out well too because it will better match my 1/16 rib caps..... if only it will work. He recommends installing half ribs under the wing sheeting to prevent a wavy LE. I already have all my ribs cut, don't really want to have more cut.
Oh man, I love scratch building, and problem solving,... when it works out.
Mar 03, 2012, 01:25 PM
My hangar is,... "almost" full
No Step's Avatar
Thread OP
..... or can you over-prop a 4 stroke and not hurt the engine?,.. like a 12x4 on a .40. I don't think I'd care about RPM, just that it'd fly the model OK.
Last edited by No Step; Mar 04, 2012 at 10:46 PM.
Mar 03, 2012, 02:05 PM
team sleprock
whiskykid's Avatar
http://saito-engines.info/prop_sizes.html

shouldn't be an issue, going with a 12" prop on a saito 56!

if you want ta go with a two stroke 46, then a 12x4 might work sense your looking for a tractor, not a speedster!
Mar 03, 2012, 03:43 PM
My hangar is,... "almost" full
No Step's Avatar
Thread OP
Thanks, I've already been there. No,... 12" on a .40.
A 2 stroke is totally out of the question.
That web page has been a real help familiarizing myself with 4 strokes again. Another pat on the back for Saitos (even though it's not backed by Saito).


Quick Reply
Message:

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help! Messerschmitt leading edge slats Andy Telzer Scale Kit/Scratch Built 4 Jan 07, 2012 10:51 AM
Messerschmitt M17 FFlover Scale Fuel Planes 5 Apr 29, 2005 09:33 AM
Messerschmitt M17 3-view FFlover Scale Kit/Scratch Built 0 Apr 28, 2005 08:42 AM
Messerschmitt M17 3-view FFlover Scale Kit/Scratch Built 0 Dec 13, 2004 07:55 AM