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Jun 09, 2018, 04:46 PM
Registered User
Actually I should have looked up the commonly used name for this type of control surface.

It's commonly called a STABILATOR.

From Wikipedia;
Stabilator (a portmanteau of "stabilizer-elevator") is also known in aircraft terminology as all moving tailplane, all-movable tail(plane), all-moving stabilizer, all flying tail(plane), full-flying stabilizer, flying tail and slab tailplane.
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Jun 09, 2018, 05:23 PM
Registered User
Wintr's Avatar
I first encountered the term stabilator during the design of the F-15 Eagle. In that aircraft, they are used primarily to control roll and yaw in extreme flight conditions, like very high AoA, when the ailerons and rudder lose functionality, not so much to increase roll rate. Same for the F-18 Hornet. Since I'm a McDon-D/Boeing guy, I don't know if the F-16 Falcon uses them differently. These may be the special conditions that are mentioned above.
Jun 09, 2018, 06:36 PM
Rick
My understanding of the term "stabilator" is an all moving tailplane or full flying stabilizer as in the Wikipedia quote which, in itself, does not imply roll control. The main advantages being increased pitch authority and self adjusting decalage. I can see where they could have some advantage at high AOA also, as Wintr mentioned.

Some jets, like the F-22 in the video seem to have quite a bit more surface area in the tailplane than in the ailerons. Although the ailerons have a greater moment, it's plausible the tail could contribute useful roll authority.

In a model it makes sense that if it's scale the model should mimic the original. For a non-scale model, however, It always seemed to me that tailerons were just something to do because you could, without real benefit. However, maybe at a very high AOA, where the wing and a fixed stabilizer might be stalled, the tailerons could be useful. One would think though, that if they had much value at high AOA, all models designed for extreme 3D would have them, yet they only seem to show up on jets.

Pardon my musings.
Jun 09, 2018, 06:48 PM
Registered User
The F-22 was designed to do a COBRA maneuver, a sudden very high alpha maneuver to quickly slow the plane down to gain an advantage over an attacking aircraft as he rapidly flies by.

Here's a video demonstrating how it's done.
I think it's a Russian propaganda film but it shows the cobra maneuver.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...56&FORM=WRVORC
Last edited by clearprop88; Jun 09, 2018 at 06:55 PM.
Jun 09, 2018, 11:43 PM
Registered User
CaseySP's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by choochoo22
No there isn't a Mac version of the software but I think some people have had success with emulators.

Actually the default factory state is 3DHH. Unless you acquired it used, you might have changed it at some point yourself.

Another possibility exists. It could be actually in 3DHH but the HH is not locked because the trim is too far out. Try executing two gestures to record the current trim.
Installed Bootcamp and then Windows in a new partition of the Mac. Enabled 3D HH via the Guardian software. All good now, HH is behaving as I was expecting it to.

Pity Eagle Tree devalued the stick menu option - would make it easier to make any changes at the field (and if you don't own a PC).

Yes the Guardian I am using is not brand new so it is possible that it had been changed from the defaults at some time in the past.
Jun 10, 2018, 04:03 AM
Rick
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaseySP
...Pity Eagle Tree devalued the stick menu option - would make it easier to make any changes at the field (and if you don't own a PC)....
That got complicated when they implemented the mode selection tab in the PC app. The original Guardian firmware had 2D/off/3D assigned to fixed positions on the mode switch, as Bill described a few posts back. With that setup, using the stick menu to turn HH on or off for 3D was pretty straightforward since it was clear where it applied. Now with the ability to assign any of five modes to any of three switch positions (a much appreciated improvement) the water is pretty muddy. If you use the stick menu to turn HH on, to which switch position does it apply? 3D could be assigned to any of the stick positions, or more than one, or none. I sometimes set mine up as 2D/3D/3DHH. HH is already on for one switch position and off for another. To modify this from the stick menu, that menu would have to be much more complicated. That seems way too complex for a feature that doesn't seem to used much anyway.

Come to think of it, if you really want it to work the old way, you could re-load the old firmware and it should work fine on any rev-B device. The old firmware won't work on the rev-C devices.
Jun 10, 2018, 08:29 AM
Mach One
captain MoMo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by clearprop88
Right Cap'n.
RTFM.
There is no reason not to buy the plane if you like it. You can install the G or any other flight stabilization of your choice later. I donít understand your concern. I have the G on almost every EDF I own and think you can do the same on the Flex Jet. If you donít want to read the manual thatís fine.
Jun 14, 2018, 07:35 PM
Registered User
Hi All,
I have ordered an Eagle Tree Guardian from Hking this week after reading this forum.
This is going into a flying wing. I have a few questions. How do you wire the Guardian using the FrSky X4R SB receiver? It has 3 channels plus S- bus connection only.
Also, should I download the 10.69 or 10.72 software for best result/ functionality and ease of use? I read somewhere on this forum that a new version is to be released soon called "Advance Guardian" or next generation Guardian? If it can be confirmed that a new release is on the horizon then, what extra features will it come with?
I have flown INAV on my flying wings and very happy with it.What I really like is the Nav Launch feature making hand launch very safe and easy to use.
Hope to hear some of your experiences with regards to wiring with Sbus receivers.
Thank you.
Regards,
AeroR
Jun 14, 2018, 08:13 PM
Registered User
You only need to feed the Guardian the channels - control surfaces - that you want/need it to control. So for a flying wing, only Elevons? Just feed the Guardian Ch1 & Ch2 from the PWM output pins of the RX. Ch1 set for Pitch, Ch2 set for Roll (or vice versa). The Guardian will do the required mixing to control the Elevons correctly (if you set it to do that!)

Throttle.... Ch3 straight to the ESC.....
Hopefully you have no more things you need to control.... or if you do then you would have to do that via SBUS to get Ch4 upwards.

Oh, Gain and Mode selection... well you can't do that as you do not have enough channels output via PWM.
So the next thing to do is add a SBUS DECODER. The Frsky one will break out any 4 channels you want to its 4 PWM output ports. You will also need their SBUS Programmer device, so you can set the decoder channels you want it to output.

Hmmm..... you really want a 6ch RX to do it easier and cheaper.
Then you have the 6Ch RX with Flight Controller from FRsky, and it costs only $2 more than a plain RX anyway. So apart from it being 'not as good' - BUT is still fine and viable - that would be the easiest and cheapest solution for you really.
S6R.....

Not that I want to tell you NOT to get a Guardian - it is just not economical versus a RX/FC combination. more so seeing you have FRsky, thus the S6R and S8R options.
(I always get the S8R's anyway.... a few $ more. Though I have two S6R, they were a bit of a waste/loss versus just always getting S8R's)
Last edited by PeterVRC; Jun 14, 2018 at 08:19 PM.
Jun 14, 2018, 10:11 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterVRC
You only need to feed the Guardian the channels - control surfaces - that you want/need it to control. So for a flying wing, only Elevons? Just feed the Guardian Ch1 & Ch2 from the PWM output pins of the RX. Ch1 set for Pitch, Ch2 set for Roll (or vice versa). The Guardian will do the required mixing to control the Elevons correctly (if you set it to do that!)

Throttle.... Ch3 straight to the ESC.....
Hopefully you have no more things you need to control.... or if you do then you would have to do that via SBUS to get Ch4 upwards.

Oh, Gain and Mode selection... well you can't do that as you do not have enough channels output via PWM.
So the next thing to do is add a SBUS DECODER. The Frsky one will break out any 4 channels you want to its 4 PWM output ports. You will also need their SBUS Programmer device, so you can set the decoder channels you want it to output.

Hmmm..... you really want a 6ch RX to do it easier and cheaper.
Then you have the 6Ch RX with Flight Controller from FRsky, and it costs only $2 more than a plain RX anyway. So apart from it being 'not as good' - BUT is still fine and viable - that would be the easiest and cheapest solution for you really.
S6R.....

Not that I want to tell you NOT to get a Guardian - it is just not economical versus a RX/FC combination. more so seeing you have FRsky, thus the S6R and S8R options.
(I always get the S8R's anyway.... a few $ more. Though I have two S6R, they were a bit of a waste/loss versus just always getting S8R's)
Hi Peter,
Thank you for the response.
I really appreciate your advice. I do have FrSky X6R and X8R receivers but not the S series though. While using INAV, I found that using the SBus was very easy to set up. I have a few flying wings on INAV and thought to give Eagle Tree system a go to start with and try the Guardian.
If this works out well enough to my expectation, then I might add micro Vector down the track on my planes. I'm in the process of trying different AP system and see which one suits my skills and requirement and ease of use, set up and reliability.
Any news regarding future release of the "next gen Guardian"or is it just a rumour?
Thank you.
Regards,
AeroR
Jun 15, 2018, 03:25 AM
Rick
@AeroR
Guardian works best in general with 6+ channels. You need one channel each for the usual AETR plus mode and gain. For your wing you would need two for elevons plus, presumably throttle, so you could get away with five. The Guardian accepts only PWM channels, no s-bus. An X4R would work with four channels if you omit the gain channel which would work OK in most cases, though a little less convenient to set up. However, an X4RSB will only output 3 PWM channels which would require omitting mode, and I would recommend against that. A six channel would be much preferred.

You likely wouldn't notice any difference between 10.69 and 10.72 but I would recommend 10.72.

The Micro Vector does accept s-bus so your X4RSB would work fine. The Guardian Advanced was not a rumor but the project has been scrapped. I think their resources went into the Micro Vector which was in development about the same time and does everything planned for the G Advanced and more, for what would likely be only a few dollars more.

Let me recommend reading the Guardian New User's Guide from my blog page to get you started easily and avoid mishaps.

This video shows the Guardian's hand launch capabilities and more:

Experimenting with a Guardian in a Polaris 2 (4 min 5 sec)
Jun 16, 2018, 09:09 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by choochoo22
@AeroR
Guardian works best in general with 6+ channels. You need one channel each for the usual AETR plus mode and gain. For your wing you would need two for elevons plus, presumably throttle, so you could get away with five. The Guardian accepts only PWM channels, no s-bus. An X4R would work with four channels if you omit the gain channel which would work OK in most cases, though a little less convenient to set up. However, an X4RSB will only output 3 PWM channels which would require omitting mode, and I would recommend against that. A six channel would be much preferred.

You likely wouldn't notice any difference between 10.69 and 10.72 but I would recommend 10.72.

The Micro Vector does accept s-bus so your X4RSB would work fine. The Guardian Advanced was not a rumor but the project has been scrapped. I think their resources went into the Micro Vector which was in development about the same time and does everything planned for the G Advanced and more, for what would likely be only a few dollars more.

Let me recommend reading the Guardian New User's Guide from my blog page to get you started easily and avoid mishaps.

This video shows the Guardian's hand launch capabilities and more:

https://youtu.be/fAFSk39Ysbo
Hi Rick,
Thank you very much for the advice. I have printed off the PDF "How to set up a Guardian"from your blog and went through it in detail. This has to be the best guide to set up a Guardian.Very well written for newbies. It should be on the ET website for reference purposes. I'm very grateful to you for pointing me in the right direction.
I have decided to start with a conventional 4 channel plane to set up my Guardian for ease of use.( It is in the mail from Hobby King -Volantex Ranger 1600mm FPV plane)
I have watched your Polaris 2 video as well and quite impressed with your launches.
Will report back after I get my build completed.
Thanks.
Regards,
AeroR
As I get more used to the Guardian and how it flies, I will eventually put another unit on the flying wing
Jun 16, 2018, 11:13 AM
Rick
I had a Guardian in a similar but larger plane. 2D was very useful and worked great. 3D, not so much. This wasn't a shortcoming of the Guardian but the plane as it lacked any real aerobatic capability. It should be easy to get the G setup in this plane.
Jun 26, 2018, 02:42 PM
Registered User
plasoneal's Avatar

Problems Connecting


Hey, I've used the Guarding in several models over the past years. Love it's capabilities!

I've been grounded for ~ 1 year for various reason, and am trying to get back in the air. While setting up a new transmitter, I'm have troubles getting the right mode(s) operating properly.

I've downloaded the latest "Data Recorder" software but it won't connect to the guardian. I've tried 2 different machines with both the 10.69 and 10.72 releases.

I just get the "please connect" message. When I plug in the USB, I eventually get a blinking light in the Guardian, but nothing else.

Any ideas?

Paul
Jun 26, 2018, 03:02 PM
Registered User
plasoneal's Avatar
Well, go figure. Connected to another unit, it worked ok. Came back and tried this one again, now it connects!



Only took about 5 connection attempts in total.

Paul


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