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Old Jul 10, 2012, 11:28 AM
everydayflyer is offline
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I know I am old school here but Transmitter trims are for triming a new plane and / or triming for different flying conditions. The reason servo to flight control surfasce have adjustments is so they can be used to trim the aircraft.

When aircraft if correctly trimmed and Gardian 2D/3D is correctly set level ,straight flight the aircraft should fly hands off straight and level in 21D / Off / 3D. this of course if there is little to no wind.

Charles
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Old Jul 10, 2012, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Silverexpress View Post
Can you provide us some numbers. That would be cool and it would help me better understand.

Here's some stuff I found for reference:
...
That looks like some really interesting stuff! I've bookmarked your post and will have to review later. Thanks.

My numbers would just be the definition of angular acceleration (deg/sec^2), a claim that it is the same everywhere on a rigid body and another claim that a gyro only responds to angular acceleration. But I will review what you presented tonight.
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Old Jul 10, 2012, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post
That looks like some really interesting stuff! I've bookmarked your post and will have to review later. Thanks.

My numbers would just be the definition of angular acceleration (deg/sec^2), a claim that it is the same everywhere on a rigid body and another claim that a gyro only responds to angular acceleration. But I will review what you presented tonight.
Pretty neat stuff.

In regards to the placement of the gyro. Let's go back to pitching our plane back and forth. What I found was that the amplitude of the gyro's response decreased as you got further out from the cg and it was regardless of how fast you swung the gyro. WHat did go up with an increase of speed was the frequency of the response.

To get the same amplitude from pivoting at the CG, A gyro further out would have to swing in a much larger arc.
Last edited by Silverexpress; Jul 10, 2012 at 02:07 PM.
Old Jul 10, 2012, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post
That looks like some really interesting stuff! I've bookmarked your post and will have to review later. Thanks.

My numbers would just be the definition of angular acceleration (deg/sec^2), a claim that it is the same everywhere on a rigid body and another claim that a gyro only responds to angular acceleration. But I will review what you presented tonight.
This seems like one of those discussions where everyone has an opinion and an argument to support it but we are not likely to come up with data sufficiently convincing for everyone's satisfaction. Such discussions, however, can be fun and informative.

It may be worthwhile to re-consider the original question; Is it necessary to make extensions to re-position the Guardian to the CG? It seems like the practical answer is; try it first near the rx. The worst that can happen is that the response is diminished and most people don't fly at 100% gain anyway. There is a very good chance it will work fine and save a lot of trouble. If not, it can always be repositioned later.
Old Jul 10, 2012, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
I know I am old school here but Transmitter trims are for triming a new plane and / or triming for different flying conditions. The reason servo to flight control surfasce have adjustments is so they can be used to trim the aircraft.

Charles
Personally I set up all my planes with as little trim as possible,
Takes several flights to adjust the linkage, but I usually end up with little trim, if any

This way you get the full range of motion of the servos

FCA
Old Jul 10, 2012, 04:09 PM
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Hi guys! Long time watcher, first time writing. I’m John, the lead engineer on the Guardian and I wanted to thank you all for your help and thoughtfulness on this thread! As more people get the Guardian, I’ll be doing my best to try and follow and learn from this conversation as well as add what I can.

First, some of you might have seen this on the Guardian 2D/3D Stabilizer’s webpage, but I wanted to share this quickstart video here as well. It explains how to set up the Guardian on a standard fixed wing model.
Guardian 2D/3D Stabilizer Tutorial (7 min 16 sec)


Regarding placement of the Guardian relative to CG, we recommend that you get as close as you can to the CG to ensure the best self-leveling performance. In addition, the 2D Mode’s Auto Turn Coordination feature is more sensitive to placement within the model. If you use this option, you will want to keep the Guardian as close to the CG as possible for best performance.

choochoo22: You described the Aileron response as creating an offset after tumbling your model through the air in 2D Mode. To add on RicoAlonso’s comment, this is the 2D Heading Hold feature working to roll your plane towards its currently locked heading. Simply tap your Aileron control channel to reset your current 2D Heading and the Ailerons should reset to level. While this is great for allowing hands-free straight flight, you can disable this option through the control stick menu or the PC App.
Old Jul 10, 2012, 04:44 PM
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Hi John! Great to have you on here. A few pages back I reported my overall awesome success with the guardian in an 89" 3DHobbyShop Slick, but I was surprised that it still drops the nose when rolling to knife edge at high speed rather than applying rudder to resist the yaw from the nose dropping. What have I done wrong? I know the airframe is aerodynamically capable of maintaining heading (I do have 3D heading hold enabled) in KE at that speed because it does it when I manually apply the rudder inputs.

Thanks!
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Old Jul 10, 2012, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John.T View Post
choochoo22: You described the Aileron response as creating an offset after tumbling your model through the air in 2D Mode. To add on RicoAlonso’s comment, this is the 2D Heading Hold feature working to roll your plane towards its currently locked heading. Simply tap your Aileron control channel to reset your current 2D Heading and the Ailerons should reset to level. While this is great for allowing hands-free straight flight, you can disable this option through the control stick menu or the PC App.
Thanks John, I hadn't considered that. I went back and checked it out with that in mind and indeed it explains the behavior I was seeing and a couple of other things. It doesn't seem to come back to precisely the same heading but it's close and touching the ailerons resets it. That situation shouldn't normally occur in flight anyway but I was seeing the same thing recovering from an "unusual attitude". In the latter case it doesn't seem to matter much what heading is locked as long as it comes out level.

One unrelated quibble; At the top of page 8 in the manual is a paragraph titled "Flutter Suppression". This should say "Oscillation Suppression". Aerodynamic flutter is a different phenomenon entirely and if someone thinks the Guardian is going to prevent flutter it could cost him a plane.
Old Jul 10, 2012, 07:19 PM
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Rick
John, one comment on the video; One recommended mounting method is hot-glue. A frequent poster in the Polaris thread has built several using hot-glue for servo attachment. (The servos in a Polaris are buried.) It seems they all came loose eventually, sometimes with destructive consequences. If a Guardian came loose in flight it could be equally destructive, especially if the pilot didn't have an off switch available.

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Originally Posted by nrg2go View Post
My MiniP is on 29 flights, probably because I prefer to fly the bigger ones. It's had belly surgery three times all due to hot glue letting go on all servos. Otherwise no external damage and good service.
Old Jul 10, 2012, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
John, one comment on the video; One recommended mounting method is hot-glue. A frequent poster in the Polaris thread has built several using hot-glue for servo attachment. (The servos in a Polaris are buried.) It seems they all came loose eventually, sometimes with destructive consequences. If a Guardian came loose in flight it could be equally destructive, especially if the pilot didn't have an off switch available.
Suspect there would be far more stress on a servo than the Guardian that doesn't move. regardless of attachment method, things need to be checked as part of regular preflight and maintenance.
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Old Jul 10, 2012, 10:26 PM
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control deflection


I have recieved my gardian. I understand that defliction of the control sefices are determed by the linkages, but what are best angles for each. Ail,Stab & Rud ?, Say a Mr. Mulligan, 40" span.
Old Jul 11, 2012, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
but what are best angles for each. Ail,Stab & Rud ?,
Such will need to be determined by trial and erroor for each aircraft.

IMO it is besrt to start low and increase as found necessary.

Comparing Pots to clock face then 12 O clock is zero and aprox. 4 O clock is full ,max. one direction and 8 O clock is max. other way. I would suggest starting at 2 O clock ( or 10 O clock and increase as needed.
Old Jul 11, 2012, 07:07 AM
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I would also suggest getting the sircraft flying first with no Guardian so you can ensure everything is working properly first, before adding more parts to the puzzle. Better to have a known working and trimmed aircraft before trying to add the Guardian, that way you can rule out issues easier.
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Old Jul 11, 2012, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by flitelab View Post
I would also suggest getting the sircraft flying first with no Guardian so you can ensure everything is working properly first, before adding more parts to the puzzle. Better to have a known working and trimmed aircraft before trying to add the Guardian, that way you can rule out issues easier.
Totally agree with the above.
Old Jul 11, 2012, 11:19 AM
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I would say it depends on the aircraft and the pilots abilities. With the Guardian 2D/3D corectly installed and set even half way correct as to the degree of stabilization a less than very good pilot stands a much better chance of a sucessful flight. Remember the Guardian can be switched off and while on corrects more than 100 times faster that the average pilot.

If one goes back and reads post from months ago some have been waiting on thier Guardians to madien aircraft which they have a lot of time and work in.


A somewhat unrelated example. Ask around and see how many heli pilots would even consider even just trying to hover their heli with the gyro turned off. Ask the same question about their flybarless control box.

My point is that the Guardian 2D/3D does not make the aircraft harder to fly / less stabile it makes it a lot more stable unless you relly make some major errors on the setup and same can be done with Transmitter settings. A reversed ali,or elev. can really make a flight exciting and short.

Charles
Last edited by everydayflyer; Jul 11, 2012 at 11:24 AM.


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