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Sep 15, 2019, 12:17 PM
Registered User
Jack Reacher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPJI
I had a similar situation last month with a standard elevator, aileron, rudder setup. Flipping the mode switch caused the ailerons to move. Turned out the AUX1 and Mode cables on the guardian wiring harness were labelled incorrectly from the factory.
Okay so i swapped the guardian for a different unit and wiring harness and still same, this has me really puzzled now
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Sep 15, 2019, 02:36 PM
Rick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Reacher
I am just setting up a guardian in an AR900 wing, and variable gain on channel 5, all set up on rotary control as per usual but when i turn the gain the elevons rise up, never had this problem before, this was a used Guardian, i have it set to elevon and done firmware update, all other functions are working just fine, i do have a spare guardian so may end up swapping it out
This is probably perfectly normal depending on the circumstances. For example; if your level is set off-level and you are in 2D mode, then the G may be trying to bring the plane to what it sees as level. Adjusting the gain changes how hard it tries to do that and may make surfaces move.

Prop the plane level. Plug in the battery. Within 15 sec execute one gesture and verify the confirming twitch. Now without moving the plane wait 30 seconds and test the behavior you described earlier. Is the behavior the same? Or just follow the setup in the New User's Guide.
Sep 15, 2019, 11:39 PM
Registered User
Jack Reacher's Avatar

fixed


Quote:
Originally Posted by choochoo22
This is probably perfectly normal depending on the circumstances. For example; if your level is set off-level and you are in 2D mode, then the G may be trying to bring the plane to what it sees as level. Adjusting the gain changes how hard it tries to do that and may make surfaces move.

Prop the plane level. Plug in the battery. Within 15 sec execute one gesture and verify the confirming twitch. Now without moving the plane wait 30 seconds and test the behavior you described earlier. Is the behavior the same? Or just follow the setup in the New User's Guide.
You are a star, fixed and working correctly, thank you for the fast reply, yes i did as you said and placed it level did the gesture then waited 30 and all is good, this is down to the shape of the belly of this AR wing, when i set level i propped the back up to get it in its aprox level flight but after removing the prop the tail drops when placed on a floor
Sep 16, 2019, 04:09 PM
Rick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Reacher
...fixed and working correctly,...
Glad it's sorted.
Last edited by choochoo22; Sep 16, 2019 at 07:23 PM.
Sep 25, 2019, 03:25 PM
hec2buck
How do I set up Guardian for Flaperons. I know right Aileron goes to Aileron port & left Aileron goes to Aux. port. I the need to set up my Spectrum DX7 for Flaperons , correct? Also, If I need Flap 3 way switch for Flaperons, can I use Gear 2 way switch for Mode select?
Sep 25, 2019, 06:32 PM
Rick
Quote:
Originally Posted by hec2buck
How do I set up Guardian for Flaperons. I know right Aileron goes to Aileron port & left Aileron goes to Aux. port. I the need to set up my Spectrum DX7 for Flaperons , correct? Also, If I need Flap 3 way switch for Flaperons, can I use Gear 2 way switch for Mode select?
That can work but it's better to setup the flaperon in the Guardian (a check box in the PC app). Set the tx up as independent flap channel and connect that to Guardian aux. Right and left are basically interchangeable. Whichever way you hook it up you have to make sure both the tx and the G are moving things in the right direction as per the New User's Guide.

It would be better to use a 3-pos switch for mode. If you want to use the default 3-pos for the flaps see if you can assign another 3-pos for mode, either on an aux ch or gear.
Sep 27, 2019, 09:29 AM
hec2buck
I just installed a brand new Gaurdian 2D/3D Stabilizer with fixed wing. I have a Spectrum DX7 and I used the Gear switch to go from 2D to 3D. With a fresh battery, I turned plane on and in less than 15 seconds, toggled the Gear switch once. The control surfaces twitched per instructions. I did this with plane leveled.

Problem: I get one flash then 4 more flashes and repeat on the Gaurdian. This indicates an error code. What did I do wrong?? All Eagle Tree tells me is to update firmware. So a brand new unit that may need update, won't work??? Please help.
Last edited by hec2buck; Sep 27, 2019 at 09:57 AM.
Sep 27, 2019, 04:01 PM
Rick
Eagle Tree tells you in the manual, 4 blinks + 1 blink indicates a brownout. Check your power source and try it again.

You said "won't work???". Did you actually test it or did you assume it wasn't working because of the blinks? If you tested it, what was actually wrong? It's rather hard to troubleshoot remotely "won't work".

Have you followed the setup steps in the New User's Guide on my blog page?
Sep 28, 2019, 11:03 AM
Registered User

Taking off a tail dragger with scale-like tail lift


I would like to take off my tail dragger (in 3D HH) mode but have the tail lift off prior to leaving the runway (I.E. scale like). Normally in 3D HH the plane will lift off at the attitude sitting on the ground (nose up) and the tail will not lift. Would the following method work to accomplish my goal:
1. Just before entering the runway, lift the tail to about level position and move the elevator stick then let elevator back to neutral. That should establish the pitch for 3D HH at level (tail up during takeoff)
2. Taxi on the runway using rudder but NOT touching the elevator (I.E. leave my hands off the right stick.
3. Apply power. The 3D HH should hold the yaw down the runway but should also adjust pitch as I set it prior to entering the runway.
4. After the tail lifts and a little more speed, gently add a little up elevator to establish the takeoff attitude.

This approach assumes that the pitch will not change from the last input (prior to entering the runway) even though I move the rudder to line up and the only down side would be if I lift the tail too much (may nose over) or touch the elevator stick after setting for level (would just revert to takeoff at ground pitch when air speed is sufficient)

Can someone confirm my logic

Thanks
Sep 28, 2019, 02:36 PM
Rick
Your logic is mostly correct in principle but I think you would have a hard time getting it to actually work.

The first 3 steps are OK. Setting it fairly level shouldn't be too hard and taxiing with rudder-only won't disturb that setting if you are careful. When you try to "gently add a little up elevator" to initiate the climb, applying elevator to establish a climb will unlock all axes. It has to or the angle won't change. At best you might be able to jerk it quickly into the new attitude and release to hold it. But that isn't very scale-like and repeatability could be difficult.

Try using 2D. This will hold the level you want automatically. Once you reach rotation speed, just pull and hold a bit of up elevator for the climb. If you like, you can program a switch to provide a consistent up elevator and climb angle. The main downside is that it won't manage the rudder, you will still have to do that manually.

You could program a 3-pos switch for three takeoff stages. Stage one, apply some right rudder for torque, stage two apply some up elevator for climb, stage three drop the offsets and assume normal flight. Might be rather fiddly to set up and take a lot of trial and error to get it right.

There was a guy here, PeterVRC, who experimented quite a bit with this sort of thing if I recall correctly. You might try contacting him on what he learned or search for his posts.
Sep 28, 2019, 03:43 PM
Registered User
choochoo22: Thanks! The reason I suggest 3D-HH is because this tail dragger (Staggerwing Beach) is short coupled and I cannot keep it going straight down the runway without some type of heading hold stabilization. I have not tried 2D on takeoff because as I understand, 2D will not correct for torque or side wind deviations and if it did not, the Staggerwing would end in the ditch.
I did review PeterVRC's posts and got some good insight.
I will give my plan a try. I may also try leaving a little up in the orientation (I.E. lift the tail just a little) and not touch the elevator until after lift off.
Sep 28, 2019, 04:17 PM
Rick
In 2D the only rudder corrections are rate mode transient corrections and auto turn coordination if enabled. It does not attempt to hold an azimuth with the rudder even if 2DHH is used, which I generally do not recommend.

3DHH does use the rudder to hold the azimuth but don't expect it to hold the runway heading flawlessly. I don't have a great way to explain this but--- Countering torque etc. on takeoff requires a persistent right rudder (usually). The Guardian rudder responds to an error in actual azimuth vs target azimuth. To generate a persistent rudder correction requires a persistent error. What will happen is that the plane will drift to the left until the error generates a rudder correction strong enough to balance the drift and it will hold that azimuth, somewhere left of where you set it. Expect that. Perhaps the most successful technique is to set the initial azimuth somewhat to the right of the runway line in anticipation.

This drift can be seen in this video if you are looking for it. At the site in the video there is no runway and the exact angle makes little difference but it would matter more at a club field.

Guardian in a Taildragger 2 (1 min 45 sec)
Last edited by choochoo22; Sep 28, 2019 at 04:51 PM.
Sep 28, 2019, 04:54 PM
Registered User
For anyone interested..

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...dian-%28NEW%29

Thanks,
Raz
Sep 29, 2019, 12:01 PM
Registered User
Jack Reacher's Avatar
Is there any talk of a all new guardian product being released?
Sep 29, 2019, 12:40 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by choochoo22
In 2D the only rudder corrections are rate mode transient corrections and auto turn coordination if enabled. It does not attempt to hold an azimuth with the rudder even if 2DHH is used, which I generally do not recommend.

3DHH does use the rudder to hold the azimuth but don't expect it to hold the runway heading flawlessly. I don't have a great way to explain this but--- Countering torque etc. on takeoff requires a persistent right rudder (usually). The Guardian rudder responds to an error in actual azimuth vs target azimuth. To generate a persistent rudder correction requires a persistent error. What will happen is that the plane will drift to the left until the error generates a rudder correction strong enough to balance the drift and it will hold that azimuth, somewhere left of where you set it. Expect that. Perhaps the most successful technique is to set the initial azimuth somewhat to the right of the runway line in anticipation.

This drift can be seen in this video if you are looking for it. At the site in the video there is no runway and the exact angle makes little difference but it would matter more at a club field.

https://youtu.be/s5yUfpUsd1U
I have a FMS P-47 with a Guardian. I'm doing exactly what you do and my take offs are just about perfect in 3d mode. I then switch to 2d (my preferred "fly-around" mode). My landings are in 3d mode.


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