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Jun 21, 2019, 09:18 PM
Michael
Snowflake6515's Avatar
Have you tried a different USB cable? Specifically, a "data" and not just a "charge" cable? I know that I grab the nearest USB cable for whatever purpose I have in mind and every once in a while, I get your symptom and laugh at my mistake because I used a simple charging cable. I should relabel them, but it is a rare event and not worth the trouble. IIRC, I have been tossing out the charge-only cables as I have enough data cables conveniently lying around.

Michael
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlk69
My Guardian just stopped working and Data Recorder does not see any device when USB cable is plugged in. This unit has been installed and working correctly in my Freewing F-15 for a few years. Says Rev B on bottom and 2012, Eagle Tree Systems. Light comes on when USB is plugged in or power is supplied by aileron cable from Rx.

Any body have any suggestions for trouble shooting?
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Jun 22, 2019, 12:58 PM
RC Aircraft Junkie
jlk69's Avatar
I have another Guardian that works fine when installed in the F-15 and Data Recorder is able to establish a connection using the same USB cable that was used with the faulty unit.
Jun 22, 2019, 03:05 PM
Rick
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlk69
My Guardian just stopped working...
Was it just the USB connection or did the stabilization quit as well?
Jun 23, 2019, 06:12 PM
Registered User
plasoneal's Avatar

Problems with mixing on delta wing


I made this post in a separate thread, but no reply. The short YouTube here demonstrates the problem. Any ideas greatly appreciated

Dx8 Guardian Problems (1 min 51 sec)


Paul
Jun 23, 2019, 08:06 PM
Registered User
Wintr's Avatar
@plasoneal: Does it do this with the G in off or 2D modes? What are your 3D settings - direct rate enabled? On the servo page, are the default settings enabled?

This is the behavior I would expect if Direct Rate is enabled, and the model on a table.
Last edited by Wintr; Jun 24, 2019 at 02:49 PM.
Jun 24, 2019, 12:25 AM
Registered User
GryphonRCU's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by choochoo22
I think you are chasing a shadow. If everything is working OK, let it go.

There is no consistency that I know of in the direction of servo rotation or the up/down of radio controls and possibly receiver signals. You check the direction and if needed, reverse it. Which way works is immaterial. Certainly different servos have different rotation. I have seen different receivers produce different magnitude servo signals from the same transmitter signal and wouldn't be at all surprised to see different directions as well. It doesn't really matter.

You were right. I was chasing a shadow/ghost.


I was wondering why the new build had a reversed ch and rev pot too.

I swapped the new Guardian into the old plane and all was fine with it.

Put the old guardian with new parts laid out on my bed and needed to rev again!!!
Started to chase a few things down till I found why elevator ch needed to be reversed in new build (besides reversing direction of pot on the unit itself).
On the old plane; When I Unplugged one of the two servo wires from the Guardian, the other servo quit.
Plane is a Delta.
*****So my convention somehow changed from left servo being Aileron without Guardian installed to Right servo becoming the Aileron when Guardian was installed.
Not sure why I did that back in the day.

Nothing was making sense and I had walked away from the new build for a month or so.
Iím shaking my head and laughing at myself.

But at least I know why, instead of just being OK with things working.

Thanks to all who helped me with your posts.

This is a great thread.

Gryphon
Jun 24, 2019, 11:42 AM
RC Aircraft Junkie
jlk69's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by choochoo22
Was it just the USB connection or did the stabilization quit as well?
Guardian is completely dead other than the LED light (control surfaces do not move at all when connected through the Guardian) .


I have opened a ticket with Eagle Tree, but since it says 2012 on the bottom it is almost for sure out of warranty .
Jun 24, 2019, 01:02 PM
Mach One
captain MoMo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlk69
Guardian is completely dead other than the LED light (control surfaces do not move at all when connected through the Guardian) .


I have opened a ticket with Eagle Tree, but since it says 2012 on the bottom it is almost for sure out of warranty .
Eagle Tree Systems are very good in taking care of you. I bet they will fix it or send you a new one!
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Jun 24, 2019, 04:17 PM
Rick
Quote:
Originally Posted by plasoneal
I made this post in a separate thread, but no reply. The short YouTube here demonstrates the problem. Any ideas greatly appreciated

Paul
Wintr's question about whether the problem exists in all G modes or just 3DH?

I use direct rate all the time and have never seen that kind of behavior, that seems unlikely. I'm thinking it has something to do with the servos response to the pulse widths it's receiving. Something is not playing nicely with its neighbors. It could be between the rx and Guardian or between the G and servo.

You might try further isolating the problem. Is the reference servo and receiver identical to the installed servo and receiver? Can you plug the reference servo into the G and see if the behavior changes? How about if the reference servo is plugged directly into the rx in the plane? How about if the installed servo is plugged directly into either rx?

Another thought; have you altered the servo limits on the G or changed the defaults on the servo (if it's programmable)?
Jun 24, 2019, 04:27 PM
Registered User
Wintr's Avatar
I think there is a small window of movement before Direct Rate becomes active. It seems it happens at a certain deflection of the stick, where I believe the G enters Direct Rate control. I think any small variation of the stick, above and below that threshold would cause the deflection to jump to max and back. It jumps to max because the model doesn't begin rotating at the commanded rate. I don't use DR, so would have to change the setting on one to see if it actually has a threshold for DR control. I'll test it later this evening, just to see.
Jun 24, 2019, 06:55 PM
Rick
What you are saying makes sense, there is a deadband near the center and any movement beyond that should, logically, push the servos to max in a stationary model but in practice it doesn't work that way. However they do it, after the deadband is exceeded the servo movement is proportional to the tx signal. Depending on the settings it will usually reach the limit with less stick movement but it is proportional along the way. Also, in the video he seems to be pushing the stick a lot further than deadband before the jump kicks in. In any case we don't know if this is only happening in 3DH, otherwise direct-rate is irrelevant.
Last edited by choochoo22; Jun 24, 2019 at 07:12 PM.
Jun 24, 2019, 07:06 PM
Registered User
Wintr's Avatar
I just tried it and, in 3D Direct Rate, the servos reached maximum deflection before the stick was over half way, as expected, but there was no sign of glitching as I slowly moved the stick. The higher the DR setting, the sooner the servos went to max. I tried normal and elevon mixing, with the same results. So, something else is causing the glitching when the servos reach the end of travel.

I can't see the LED on the G in his video, so can't tell if the servos jamming are causing a possible brown-out error. Or, perhaps he has a mix in his transmitter that kicks in, and needs to be turned off.
Last edited by Wintr; Jun 24, 2019 at 07:12 PM.
Jun 26, 2019, 01:54 PM
Registered User
plasoneal's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wintr
@plasoneal: Does it do this with the G in off or 2D modes? What are your 3D settings - direct rate enabled? On the servo page, are the default settings enabled?

This is the behavior I would expect if Direct Rate is enabled, and the model on a table.
I'll have to double check and get back to you. But originally the problem was happening in the OFF mode. I made some configuration changes, and then it started happening in the 3DHH mode. In both cases, it only happens on right aileron throw, not on left throw.
Jun 26, 2019, 02:04 PM
Registered User
plasoneal's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by plasoneal
I'll have to double check and get back to you. But originally the problem was happening in the OFF mode. I made some configuration changes, and then it started happening in the 3DHH mode. In both cases, it only happens on right aileron throw, not on left throw.
Appreciate all the thoughts. I don't think I've ever used direct rate and all wing mixing is turned off on TX. I flew > 50 flights over the past couple of years on previous DX7 with this exact receiver and Guardian before moving to the DX8. I don't believe its a defective servo, because both sides respond similarly to the right-stick action.

As mentioned, the odd behavior is way past the dead-band zone, and again, only occurs on right stick travel, not left. I did successfully fly the other day. I felt safe to do so because I essentially NEVER use that much stick on this model. Plus I primarily flew with Guardian in OFF mode (problem is currently in 3DHH mode only).

There has been no sign of brownout.
Jun 26, 2019, 02:59 PM
Registered User
Wintr's Avatar
I see the control rod bending before the servo reaches maximum, which is why I suggested a jamming servo, which could cause a drop in receiver Voltage.

I don't recall if Direct Rate is enabled by default in 3D mode; I always make sure it is off, as I don't use it, but I always check when setting up a new model. Since the G can command the servos up to the limits on the Servo page, DR can easily drive the servo farther than your radio will.


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