Feb 21, 2013, 05:04 PM
hass-alfed and bass-ackwards
carlsoti's Avatar
I don't even know what laws cover ownership of boat designs. All I know is Breakwater got Swede's permission to pull Orco Skinny hulls from Chuck Black molds. And he's having a pro lay them up in CF. This is exciting, to me.
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Feb 21, 2013, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Corbett View Post
You are TOTALLY incorrect about having the right to sell hulls if you own "original" molds. Unless you own the molds AND have the right from the designer to sell boats pulled from those molds you are violating the rights of the designer. To use a simple example, if I buy an original manuscript that doesn't give me the right to publish that book even if I use the author's name when I publish. And forgetting the law, it isn't the right thing to do. Always ask for permission.
I own the original mould for the ORCO Skinny which was originally in production by Chuck Black.

I also described, in detail, what I would like to do with the mould. Sweede is not available to speak to directly because of health reasons, but an individual as a representative went to see him and described in-detail what I would like to do with the mould.

The returned message was that of excitement and the permission to make and sell boats for the ORCO.
I'm still working on the MAX and Pinter

I don't have anything in writing. Would it please you if I got it?

The class is "dead" and we're gonna argue about making boats at-cost from a 20 year old design
Feb 21, 2013, 05:50 PM
Registered User
Originally Posted by Guz View Post
Most excellent.

I was going to post that GENERALLY if you have the original molds (no duplicates pulled off an existing hull), you can pull hulls and sell them. But you have to proper attribute the hull design and designer. That is, you can't plagiarize the hull as your own design/name.

Again, this a generalization. It is always best to contact the original hull designer and verify if possible. But they days are coming that it my not be possible as the designer may no longer be with us.

But I'm glad you were able to get a hold of Swede and get his blessing.

Based on my understanding, at the end of the ORCO's run, there were several duplicate moulds made of the boat in an effort to put more boats out there of what was a "obsolete" design. I have no verification of that.

I can, however, prove trace of lineage of my mould back to Black.

This isn't doing the class any good.
It's not doing what we really need to do- Put boats on the water.
Feb 21, 2013, 05:58 PM
Registered User
Originally Posted by Guz View Post

Out of curiosity, how did you obtain the Orco Skinny mold?
Seems applicable to say now that I drove several hours to have them tossed into the back of my car, rather than the other option that was about to go-down,

Which was to have them tossed into a dumpster.

True story
Feb 21, 2013, 08:08 PM
hass-alfed and bass-ackwards
carlsoti's Avatar
Feb 22, 2013, 02:52 PM
Registered User
And you also did the right thing and asked and got permission to make boats. Good on you...
Feb 24, 2013, 10:33 AM
Registered User
Very Cool conversation going on about scaling 12 Meters, and J-boats to 50" Traditional Marbleheads.
And it looks like the displacement values of the scaled boats might be on-par or better than some very good Traditional designs...

That would be very cool to potentially sail all of these designs under the M-Roof, along with already existing Traditional designs. Think of the possibilities of boat designs within the 50/800 scale!

Feb 24, 2013, 01:06 PM
Registered User
Originally Posted by Tom Corbett View Post
And you also did the right thing and asked and got permission to make boats. Good on you...
And I thank you very much for the help in trying to move the class forward. If you might be able to provide assistance on how I can contact Mr. Allen it would be very much appreciated.

A PM would be best if you know how I may contact him.
Last edited by breakwater; Feb 24, 2013 at 01:12 PM.
Feb 24, 2013, 07:06 PM
Registered User
In other news..
The Marblehead Model Yacht Club is now on Facebook, with lots of content already uploaded over several years.
The Club currently sails Vintage & Modern Ms, CR-914, EC-12, and J-Boats.


Please check it out.

As part of that, I want to say that all of my views and opinions on the consolidation of the M-class are purely my own, and are not the views of the club as an organization as a whole.

I'm only a member of the club expressing what I'd like to see happen. Really the consolodation of the class, if it were to happen needs to come from all members of the Marblehead class, it's different varieties and locations through the country.

Anyways, if anyone is interested in keeping up-to date on MMYC. The club has alot more to offer than just the M.
Feb 25, 2013, 05:02 PM
Registered User
Any update on when skinny hulls might be available? If the weight is in the 10 to 12 oz range I will take one.
Feb 26, 2013, 07:40 PM
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I had a minor medical setback of my own.. so It's a little behind. I'm plannning on going to the glass shop this weekend, and we'll get to work.
Feb 26, 2013, 07:52 PM
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Dick L.'s Avatar
Originally Posted by breakwater View Post
I had a minor medical setback of my own.
Sorry to hear that - hope all is better. Stay well !
Mar 02, 2013, 10:19 AM
Registered User
Thank You Dick. all will be fine, just another bump in the road we all have to deal with as a part of being a living thing.

Any suggestions on where I might get 50+ inch Spruce or Pine I can use for the inwhales when making these hulls?

Looking at the project, it seems pointless to make these boats without the inwhales. Installing them afterward doesn't seem like it will go very well. Bonding them at the time of layup seems like a much stronger option.
I also thought pine or spruce would be best. Sterne's boats (Viper) used balsa. It's great for weight savings, but is not strong long-term.

I was thinking we might shoot to make these boats just slightly on the heavy side so those that buy the hulls have something built like a fire-hydrant. It seems pointless to try and save every last ounce when we are talking about outdated hull forms. Strong & Light seems like the answer. Not featherweight and frail.
Mar 02, 2013, 10:37 AM
Registered User
Dick L.'s Avatar
First - ask at your club, someone "has got" to have a table saw to be able to rip the "Select" grade of pine or spruce for you. If not, and you need to purchase, Aircraft Spruce out of Texas is a great place to get quality wood. If I lived closer, I would offer to rip you a bunch. I think freight might be much, but if all else fails, let me know. Would also work for mast and boom sections too, if you wanted to cut costs and use wood. Nothing wrong, just need at least one diamond wire, and epoxy coating. Easy to control mast bend.
Mar 02, 2013, 10:37 AM
Don't lie to my dog.
Gregg28's Avatar
I did not do an exhaustive search, but I did find this as an example:
Look for aircraft wood.
I would agree that you do not need a paper thin hull, but I would not go overboard on hull weight. These boats could still be competitive, particularly with keel upgrades.

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