Marblehead Racing - Page 39 - RC Groups
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Oct 21, 2012, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by carlsoti

Does anyone here take multiple boats for different conditions at a contest?
Yes and or multiple fin/bulbs. you can only pick one for the whole regatta, so there is no experimenting. Just bring the best setup for the forecasted conditions. Most of my M's have multiple fins/bulbs. Why not bring the right tool to do the job?
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Oct 22, 2012, 07:08 AM
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I wonder where Janus Waliki was does he no longer race???are his boats still in production?
Oct 22, 2012, 03:59 PM
GBR 92
Sailterry's Avatar
I was with Tonigee at the RM Worlds and having had a conversation with the Dutch guys they are trying to get the RM worlds at the same location as the recent Dutch nationals which Graham Bantock won with a new boat. He did not take that to the worlds as he felt it was a little heavy.

There was a number of Skapels at the RM Worlds and the rigging on deck was over complicated. If you look at the top three boats the rigging was simple and very quick to replace between heats.

Keep it simple. Martin Roberts sailed his wife boat which won the last 2006 worlds at Fleetwood into 3rd place and I watched one of his heats where him and Rob Walsh went over the line and had to do a round the mark start. MR started 2nd from last and finished 3rd in that heat in very light winds. The skippers ability is what makes the difference boat design is not that high on the list of priorities like find bulb sails and rudder design.

I am not an experienced skipper but learnt so much at the event next time it will be a little different for me my boat is fast and kept pace and maybe a little quicker then others but my lack of experience was what kept me in E fleet however I did not come last and my best result was 46 almost made C fleet just missed it by 1 place and that was close as we both went over the line together.

Tonigee came 33 great result and he had a 4th in A Fleet!!!
Oct 22, 2012, 08:53 PM
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jpparisy's Avatar

World (RM) Championship 2012

The video of the ultimate heat, where the Aussie David TURTON (AUS 09) saves the honour !

Marblehead World Championship Ploermel, France 20-A (13 min 54 sec)
Oct 23, 2012, 07:46 PM
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Bravo!! I like the 'golf claps' as the winner sails thru the line.
Nice to see the 'obsolete' Skalpel finishing high in such a lite air race.
What caught me was the first leg. From the start gun to the first boat rounding the weather mark the time to travel that distance was 1:54. I would expect more from a World Championship, first leg should be started at the bottom of the course so you have the full run of the leg to spread out boats.
Again it is 'sweet' to see these boats on the water and this is the best video yet.
Oct 24, 2012, 02:58 AM
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ToniGe23's Avatar
That was the last race of the day when a slight breeze got up most of that day there was no wind and some of the races got timed out as some skippers could not finish.
Oct 24, 2012, 03:01 AM
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ToniGe23's Avatar
a touching moment when the new World Champion (Brad Gibson) hugs the ex World Champion (Martin Roberts) these guys sailed there nuts off in these conditions for boats built for winds!
Oct 24, 2012, 08:18 PM
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Never hug another man with both arms.

Bro-hug is an international code It seems.
Oct 26, 2012, 05:52 AM
Thomas MM GER15's Avatar

Oldtimer FLIPPER


Breakwater asked to post the following better in this thread, so I try to copy the given posts again.

Question was about what boat is this - see pic below also:

Now some of the answers:



thats looks like a FLIPPER, a Marblehead design from about 70ties

Do not know if it was a british design or at least a more or less british influenced german one and who was the designer, but in Germany the hull was build for years from the formal manufactorer Topp in Iserlohn.

At beginning 80ties there was a development of this hull with deeper keel and slightly modified deck, called Dänenflipper - a boat with strong performance in heavy winds at that times and many sold in Germany for some years - but it looked really old and not competitive anymore when early Skalpel 1 was put into german waters...

That’s a Dänenflipper with updated rigging incl.rotating aerofoil mast:

Here Tommy Lühmann from Bremen have rebuild a Flipper some years ago and in modern style (even just with glasfibre hull ,-) ):

Here some further impressions of some restored Flippers in Bremen.

sec. pic below:
Here are a couple of Dänenflippers racing in A-fleet at a german event in Lübeck 1984. As far as I can remember Skalpel mk1 from Mr. Walicki is coming from behind and was first at the mark... from another planet at that times ,-)


Dick L. wrote 10:16AM 25.10.2012:

A question to those "mature" owners of the Marbleheads - and some of the photos posted by Thomas .......

" Why is the rig and the keel fin located so close to the bow, leaving such a long stern?"

Conventional wisdom (maybe not) would seem to suggest downwind there would be a lot of tendency to nose-dive/pitch-pole, and having everything moved towards the stern would provide a lot less drive downward near the middle of the hull than as shown with forces pushing down on a narrow bow.

To suggest this design "worked" in heavy winds seems a bit hard to believe - it would be like a current hull with the tall rig at the bow. The contrast seems evident in the one photo of the M sailing next to an IOM.

Just curious. cheers, Dick

Yes, the rigs were very far in front of the hull as well the fin with L style keel. I was young at that times, do not know the design reasons behind, just remember someone told me that the thinking behind was something that "the sail should pull the hull".

Yes, when it was hard blowing, the hull submerged more or less - but the very rounded hull was not that much sensitive as later designs who really stopped when nose diving. In these "early" times we were sailing or M-boats mostly with only one sail suit (in that times on the pic the Dänenflipper with deeper keel have had rigs of about 200 cm mast high (190 cm luff lenght) while an original Flipper with much shorter keel have had rig hights of only about 160-170 cm (today about C1-rig size, I think).

Believe it or not - they sailed not bad indeed (but I will not judge if they would have done better with different set ups).

As you can see the much more modern Skalpel 1 on the last pic also had had its rig placed much forward. Also later MK2 Skalpels were in that way, even a little less extrem. Only the early types of MK3 they have had the rig much more in common style more or less in the middle of the boat. I am not familiar with M-development over the last years, but so far I have seen Walicki have returned to a position more forward again and a development serie of Skalpel MK3 some years ago was state of the art at that time and better than with the formal set up in common style. Here an example of one of his boats of about 2002

But so far as I know Walicki is the only designer in M-class who positioned the rig quite in front.

Michael Scharmer does it in some similar ways on his own designed and very individual IOM boats, which are known to be fast also in heavy weather.

A formal design of him of mid 2000, still looking like a boat and not as extrem designed as his latest ones



Last edited by Thomas MM GER15; Oct 26, 2012 at 05:58 AM.
Oct 26, 2012, 06:55 AM
Thomas MM GER15's Avatar
Here a good pic of a superb and nearly original build FLIPPER, showing two Flippers from Bernd Poser (and his wife in background) during a special race event in GBR Fleetwood anno 1982.

(See for data:

They were not competitive anymore - but nice to look at.

See also the different sail shapes we have had in that early years: Naviga measured german boats with harmonical rounded leechs and in opposite the bigger sized "square" leechs of the former IMYRU boat measurements (until 1988)

Oct 26, 2012, 08:37 PM
Registered User
While we're on the subject of Obsolete Marblehead Class Design names... here's just a few I thought should be mentioned.

MARCIE radio Marblehead Vic Smeed
TRICORN Marblehead M.Harris
KOKANEE Marblehead Vancouver MYC
RATONCILLO Marblehead Joost Van Santen
OUTLAW Marblehead C.Robertson
DIK DIK Marblehead G.Draper
TARROO USHTEY Marblehead J.Hudson
"247" radio Marblehead Chris Dicks
TURI Marblehead D.V.Billing
GENIE Marblehead Vic Smeed
NERANG Marblehead R.Dunster
CINQUE/FIVON Marblehead R.Dunster
SAILPLANE 11 Marblehead F.G.Draper
SKIPPY Marblehead Stan Witty
BAMBI Marblehead Stan Witty
LONGBOW Marblehead Stan Witty
QUARTET Marblehead R.E.Dunster
MARCH HARE Marblehead Roger Stollery
WHITE RABBIT Marblehead Roger Stollery
MAD HATTER Marblehead Roger Stollery
WING Marblehead Stan Witty
ELF Marblehead Stan Witty
TYPHOON Marblehead Stan Witty
SPRINT Marblehead Stan Witty
TOBBOGAN Marblehead Stan Witty
HAMMER Marblehead Stan Witty
FIREBIRD Marblehead D.M.J.Hollom
KINGFIN Marblehead Stan Witty
DAREDEVIL Marblehead Roger Stollery
BOSUN Marblehead Stan Witty
VEGA Marblehead Stan Witty
HUSTLER Marblehead Stan Witty
NORMA Marblehead Stan Witty
WASP Marblehead Stan Witty
MANTA Marblehead Stan Witty
DYNAMO Marblehead Stan Witty
CHINA BOY Marblehead D.A.McDonald
HORNET Marblehead Stan Witty
WITCH Marblehead B.H.Priest
MITHRAS Marblehead D.A.Mcdonald
WITCHCRAFT Marblehead B.H.Priest
WINDSONG Marblehead H.B.Tucker
SAIDA Marblehead D.A.McDonald
POLARIS Marblehead H.E. Andrews
FESTIVE Marblehead W.J.Daniels
MERLIN Marblehead L.A.Garrett
Oct 26, 2012, 08:52 PM
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Does anyone have a history of the various rules and when they were in force? I know the L keels were required for a while, but when were they no longer required? How about the 1" garboard radius?
Oct 28, 2012, 09:59 AM
gpzy's Avatar
Great list of boats. Wonder where the majority of those boats were sailed. I am fairly new to sailing and do not know if there ever was much Marbelhead racing in Southern California.
Hopefully my next boat will be a vintage M class boat.
Oct 29, 2012, 03:26 PM
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Another one out from under the tarp and back in the water. Just moved from San Diego to Hull, MA, and after a few years of inactivity, I'm back. This boat was built by Bob Debow for Larry Fogel, and is a replica of the boat Bob won the Nationals with in either 1980 or '82. Any ideas on what it is? Just wondering'... I'm in for "Classic' racing next spring.
Oct 29, 2012, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by slotracer577
Does anyone have a history of the various rules and when they were in force? I know the L keels were required for a while, but when were they no longer required? How about the 1" garboard radius?
That's a good question.
I don't know, but I'll ask those that do, and post a response.

I know that the AMYA was founded in 1971 and shortly thereafter (1972?) changed some of basic M design rules from the MYRAA era (which was 1930-1972) Which ones, I don't know, but it very well could have been the L-style keel era.

The Vintage group now uses original 1930-1972 MYRAA M rules as a base. But it should be noted that the Vintage group has modified those rules.

Subsequently, VMs have been built reflecting M design parameters of 1930s-1950s and MYRAA rules but not to known design (I.E. new designs, such as Sublime Boat Works boats). These have been allowed to race in club and national events. So, even if you came up with a brand-new design, if it's an M that conforms to MYRAA M Class rules (pre-1972) are likely to be considered High Flyer VM models.

MYRAA Rules Link, which also includes some restrictions made up by the SF model yacht club. Not the M-Class.
Last edited by breakwater; Oct 29, 2012 at 04:58 PM. Reason: Link.

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