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Old Feb 23, 2012, 11:09 PM
silas3d is offline
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Originally Posted by onthesnap View Post
so short term, i vote for option 1. Then as things evolve, we can get compatible rpm sensors and eventually migrate to the improve communtation capability.

In summary - do option 1 now and quiet down the pack of heli wolves. And then move to option 3 when the new $10 sensor is ready.

Thanks!
+1!
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by OnTheSnap View Post
So short term, I vote for option 1. Then as things evolve, we can get compatible RPM sensors and eventually migrate to the improve communtation capability.
If the support for the Vbar gov results in govenor that does not work as well the builtin governor, I don't see the point of #1.

I'll vote for #3. The evolution of ESC algorythms shouldn't be limited by a $15 phase sensor.
Old Feb 23, 2012, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Gregor99 View Post
If the support for the Vbar gov results in govenor that does not work as well the builtin governor, I don't see the point of #1.

I'll vote for #3. The evolution of ESC algorythms shouldn't be limited by a $15 phase sensor.
I think you misunderstood. It's just an optional mode. External gov = old commutation mode. Internal gov = new mode.

If you're not using an external gov there is nothing in this thread to be concerned about.
Old Feb 24, 2012, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by OnTheSnap View Post
I think you misunderstood. It's just an optional mode. External gov = old commutation mode. Internal gov = new mode.

If you're not using an external gov there is nothing in this thread to be concerned about.
I have a Vbar, Hyperion Phase sensor on ICE HV2. Given the choice between a poor performing Vbar govenor and good performing internal governor, I'd take the internal one until a better solution can be arrived at.
Old Feb 24, 2012, 01:23 AM
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2. The new internal governor works very very well -- so it may work quite a bit better than a simple commutation VBAR mode.... is it worth bothering to do #1 (MrMel? What's your opinion??)
Internal governor does not reach the performance of using external, period.
(i tested it)
Its not about min/max rpm in a tictoc as that you can get same.
Its about smoothness in the response, and you actually get 20% less peaks because a precompensating system always wins.
Old Feb 24, 2012, 02:12 AM
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#3 for me. I am fine with using the internal gov until the new sensor is ready. I am sure that Castle can get this figured out.

I've loaded the new firmware in my Rave 450. I'm gonna fly it as soon as I get as half decent day...

Lou
Old Feb 24, 2012, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Gregor99 View Post
If the support for the Vbar gov results in govenor that does not work as well the builtin governor, I don't see the point of #1.

I'll vote for #3. The evolution of ESC algorythms shouldn't be limited by a $15 phase sensor.
I agree. #1 is the worst possible option for us that also use the internal governor.

Old Feb 24, 2012, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Patrick del Castillo View Post
I guess my question for all of you out there is:

3. If we give a solution like #1, would an inexpensive (less than $10) external RPM sensor add-on to give both the correct RPM for a VBAR and still support the advanced commutation be an acceptable longer term solution?

Thanx!

Patrick
#3 is the best option so we can use the precompensating system of the VBAR.

I know myself & others who want the VBar function & believe in Castle are still buying CC ESC's because Castle said they were going to make it compatible. We just need to know what direction Castle is heading in.
Old Feb 24, 2012, 10:15 AM
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I agree. #1 is the worst possible option for us that also use the internal governor.

Why? You loose nothing if castle provides a special mode for vBar. And as Mr Mel just said, option 1 will perform better than the internal gov "period".

So please give us option 1, and then eventually option 3 when the new hardware is ready. Option 1 will be vastly better than using the old firmware with too slow throttle response.
Old Feb 24, 2012, 10:33 AM
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I would like option 1 also. As Mr. Mell stated we can get great results with a magnet on the motor.
Old Feb 24, 2012, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by OnTheSnap View Post
Why? You loose nothing if castle provides a special mode for vBar. And as Mr Mel just said, option 1 will perform better than the internal gov "period".
They should not make any brand specific options. They should make an option that will work with any external governor. Futaba and Skookum are very popular and they are what I fly so please donít leave everyone else out in the cold. Thatís why I think #3 is the best oprion.


I sure hope that we donít have to wait another year for something to happen Ė LOL




Old Feb 24, 2012, 10:48 AM
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??
If it works with vbar it will work with SK, what governor will not matter much, as long as its made for newer faster stuff.

Not sure nitro governors will make it shine though, there is a reason why vbar electric governor is popular, its tweaked for it.
Old Feb 24, 2012, 10:57 AM
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All ESC's should have a basic, clean RPM out signal for supporting external gov in flight controllers. Isn't this exactly what Kontronic, YGE and Scorpion ESCs provide in their latest editions? When you remove the external phase sensor (Hyperion) from the equation it doesn't matter how the ESC controls the motor (signals), the ESC will report clean RPM thru a separate signal wire to the FBL controller.

If this means a separate CC built phase sensor to make the current hardware report clean RPM then so be it. Hopefully, the next generation of CC hardware will have this signal processor incorporated on the main board so we won't have to use a separate sensor.
Old Feb 24, 2012, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff_edge540 View Post
All ESC's should have a basic, clean RPM out signal for supporting external gov in flight controllers. Isn't this exactly what Kontronic, YGE and Scorpion ESCs provide in their latest editions? When you remove the external phase sensor (Hyperion) from the equation it doesn't matter how the ESC controls the motor (signals), the ESC will report clean RPM thru a separate signal wire to the FBL controller.

If this means a separate CC built phase sensor to make the current hardware report clean RPM then so be it. Hopefully, the next generation of CC hardware will have this signal processor incorporated on the main board so we won't have to use a separate sensor.
Unfortunately, the basic commutation sequence just doesn't work all that well with high inductance outrunners (which is 95% of the heli motors out there...) There are better options.

I'll talk with Richard about doing a simple mode (which uses the basic commutation sequence) for use with external govs. We'll work with Mr Mel and others to get it working.

Should only be a few weeks before we have a beta ready.

I'll start working on an RPM sensor that will work correctly as well...

Thanx!

Patrick
Old Feb 24, 2012, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Patrick del Castillo View Post
Unfortunately, the basic commutation sequence just doesn't work all that well with high inductance outrunners (which is 95% of the heli motors out there...) There are better options.

I'll talk with Richard about doing a simple mode (which uses the basic commutation sequence) for use with external govs. We'll work with Mr Mel and others to get it working.
Why even bother with that when itís only going to satisfy 5% of the helicopter flyers.


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