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Jan 23, 2012, 04:26 AM
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CX-3X1000, 3GYS and ZYX advanced settings manual


I recently bought CX-3X1000 gyro with programming box and now it's stuck at hong kong post because of that Chinese new year. I already download manual for the gyro and the programming box, but there were lot's of settings that aren't explained (what that setting does and how it affects if it's too low or too high).
Now I have the gyro and I am building new ALZRC 450 Pro V2 which I fly when the winter here in Finland is over...
This is my first FBL gyro, so there were terms that I haven't never seen. So I used forum, Google and and other FBL gyro manuals to collect information of all those gyro settings.

Now if you "gyro setting experts" could read and check this "manual" if you could find something to correct or have something to add there...


Basic setup:

- Monitor
In this item, you can check the transmitter configuration and the gyro connections.
Page 1: “A” is Aileron channel, “E” is Elevator channel, “R” is Rudder channel, “C” is Collective pitch channel.
Page 2: “G” is the tail gain given by transmitter. “A:” gyro is in AVCS mode. “N:” gyro is in Normal mode. “Condition:” current parameters group in gyro. There are two parameters groups in gyro.
- Installation Direction
Select the direction of the gyro mounting. There are three directions: ”Direction 1”, ”Direction 2”, ”Direction 3”
"Direction 1" is selected when gyro is installed horizontally on helicopter gyro label facing up or down and the shortest side (side where connectors are) of the gyro facing to the nose or tail of the heli.
"Direction 2" is selected when gyro is installed horizontally on helicopter gyro label facing up or down and the shortest side (side where connectors are) of the gyro facing to the left side or right side of the heli.
"Direction 3" is selected when gyro is installed vertically on helicopter side panels gyro label facing left or right.
- Load model
Download the model data from CX-PB001 to gyro.
Model 1-5 are the parameters saved by the factory.
Model 6-10 are the parameters saved by user.
Gyro manual recommend to select a model among 1-5 models first.
- Tail servo type
Select which kind of servos your helicopter has:
“1520us 71Hz” All the tail and swashplate servos are 1520us analog.
“1520us 250Hz” Tail servo is 1520us digital, swashplate servos are 1520us analog.
“1520us 333Hz” Tail servo is 1520us digital, swashplate servos are 1520us digital.
“760us 250Hz” Tail servo is 760us digital, swashplate servos are 1520us analog.
“760us 400Hz” Tail servo is 760us digital, swashplate servos are 1520us digital.
“960us 333Hz” Tail servo is 960us digital, swashplate servos are 1520us digital.
(Warning: Be sure that the servo type is correct, otherwise servos may be damaged.
Before completing the servo type selection, don’t connect the servos to the gyro. It may damage the servos and the gyro.)
- Model type
Select the swashplate type. There are five types:
“Heli Normal” Mechanical mixer
“Heli 120”, 120 degree CCPM
“Heli 135”, 135 degree CCPM
“Heli 140”, 140 degree CCPM
“Heli 90”. 90 degree CCPM
(remember to switch off mixing from your TX.)
- Servo trim
Set neutral point trim function of the four servos. Typically used to center the servo position.
- Servo reverse
Change the direction of the servos.
- Servo limit
Limit function of tail servo and swashplate servos. Allows the adjustment of servo travel.
- Collective range
It is the collective pitch ratio, it can change the maximum and the minimum collective pitch, and the direction of motion.
- Gyro direction
Gyro compensation direction of each three axis (yaw, roll and pitch).
- Gyro total gain
Gyro total gain of each thee axis (yaw, roll and pitch). Note: The gyro Yaw total gain is determined by both transmitter and the Yaw total gain setting here. Set yaw total gain value to 100% so it will let the gain be set from the TX.
- Pirouette optimization
Adjust the sign of pirouette optimization. When entering the menu swashplate tilts in some direction. You can now treat swashplate as compass. Rotate your helicopter around it's main shaft. Swashplate should remain tilting on the same direction while helicopter is rotated. e.g. if your swashplate tilts to north, it should point to north also when helicopter is rotated.

Tail tuning:

- Yaw P
Proportional Gain generates a steering signal on the tail servo which is proportional to the rate error. The higher proportional gain is, the more direct the tail follows the stick. To setup proportional gain one should increase it until the tail has a high frequency shaking tendency and then decrease it. The default value is "80". The proportional gain depends strongly on the individual tail setup. Especially at larger helicopters with low tail power it can be increased by a factor of two.
- Yaw I
The Integral Gain corresponds to the heading hold gain of a normal gyro. It is used to produce an angular control of the tail. A to high value will result in a bad stopping behavior with a back bouncing tendency. When integral gain is to low, the tail is unstable on heavy pitch inputs and can not hold the position. The integral factor is almost independent on the tail setup of the helicopter. In default settings values are from beginner "25" to extreme "50".
- Yaw D
Stop gain. During a tail stop (from piros) it will be helpful to use a bit more tail gain to get a crispy stop.
Default settings values are from beginner to hardcore "0" and in extreme "30".
- Acceleration L
Acceleration of the left pirouette
This limits the servo throw change per calculation frame on tail servo. For example having 3D helis with super tail rotors you will be able to get high accelerations without stall effects or bouncing on a stop. With a scaler and a weak tail it will have stall and overshoot with too much throw change each calculation cycle. So it should be lowered until we get a stop without bouncing. It will stop more smooth but without overloading the tail.
Also if this value is too high it might cause stripping of tail TT gears.
- Acceleration R
Acceleration of the right pirouette
This limits the servo throw change per calculation frame on tail servo. For example having 3D helis with super tail rotors you will be able to get high accelerations without stall effects or bouncing on a stop. With a scaler and a weak tail it will have stall and overshoot with too much throw change each calculation cycle. So it should be lowered until we get a stop without bouncing. It will stop more smooth but without overloading the tail.
Also if this value is too high it might cause stripping of tail TT gears.
- Deceleration L
Deceleration of the left pirouette.
If the helicopter tail does not decelerate as fast as the gyro anticipates it overshoots the intended stop position, then the gyro brings the tail back. The end result is bouncy stop. Since the main rotor torque assist the stops in one direction, bounce is often observed in the other direction only. To eliminate bounce you can either improve the mechanical setup to keep the gyro happy in line with default gyro configuration tailored for high performance 3D helis. Or, lower the gyro's deceleration rate to match the particular heli.
However note that stops may start to feel very soft if the deceleration is dropped too far.
Also if this value is too high it might cause stripping of tail TT gears.
Default settings values are from beginner "20" to extreme "35".
- Deceleration R
Deceleration of the right pirouette
If the helicopter tail does not decelerate as fast as the gyro anticipates it overshoots the intended stop position, then the gyro brings the tail back. The end result is bouncy stop. Since the main rotor torque assist the stops in one direction, bounce is often observed in the other direction only. To eliminate bounce you can either improve the mechanical setup to keep the gyro happy in line with default gyro configuration tailored for high performance 3D helis. Or, lower the gyro's deceleration rate to match the particular heli.
However note that stops may start to feel very soft if the deceleration is dropped too far.
Also if this value is too high it might cause stripping of tail TT gears.
Default settings values are from beginner "20" to extreme "35".
- Tail deadband RC
The deadband of the tail (Rudder) stick.
The RC deadband is to ignore input from sticks that don't return to zero and to remove cross channel stick changes when the sticks are moved to the limit on the two axises. To small a value will make it hard to do single axis maneuvers without a change in the other axis (i.e. a flip ends up rolling left or right during the flip...). Bigger value means that you have to move more rudder stick before anything happens.
This avoids drifting from stick pots and servo noise.
Default settings values are from beginner "80" to extreme "40".
- Tail deadband gyro
The deadband of the yaw gyro
The Gyro deadband is the value used to ignore small changes coming from the gyro MEMS sensors.
This avoids drifting from gyro and servo noise. Big number results in poor stability and drift. Too small a number can overwork your tail servo.
Default "4" in all configurations.
- Pirouette speed L
The maximum left pirouette speed. Turning speed when rudder is on the left.
Default settings values are from beginner "30" to extreme "45".
- Pirouette speed R
The maximum right pirouette speed. Turning speed when rudder is on the right.
Default settings values are from beginner "30" to extreme "45".
- Tail compensate Col>tail
The ratio of collective pitch mixing to tail pitch.
Compensation factor for tail pitch when using high positive and negative collective pitch.
Default "0" in all configurations.
- Tail compensate Cyc>tail
The ratio of cyclic pitch mixing to tail pitch.
Compensation factor for tail when using cyclic (doing tight rolls and loops).
Default "0" in all configurations.
("Tail compensate Cyclic to tail" and "Tail compensate Collective to tail" settings are used to fine tune the helicopter tail so that tail will be perfectly steady when doing for example tic tocs. If these aren't used tail still hold, but it will wiggle a bit when gyro is making it's corrections. With these settings it's possible to give some advance to tail so that gyro doesn't need to do corrections for tail.)

Swash tuning:

- Roll P gain
Proportional Gain produces an regulative action on the swash plate which is proportional to the measured rate error on the swash plate and thus proportional gain makes the aileron rate follow the rate commanded on the swash sticks. Abrupt stops of flips should be free of high frequency shaking. If this is not the case the proportional gain is to high. Also if this is too high, instability and hunting will tend to occur.
Default "80" in all configurations.
With fast cyclic servos this can be increased.
(In all five default profiles "Roll P gain" value is identical to "Pitch P gain" value.)
- Roll I gain
Integral gain is responsible that the helicopter keeps the direction under all circumstances. When wind forces the helicopter out of its direction, the integral gain is correcting this. Fast forward flight is also stabilized by the integral gain. Integral gain must be setup so that the helicopter stable during load changes on swash plate. When integral gain is set to high, the stopping behavior on swash plate is influenced negatively: the helicopter gets a tendency to slowly drift back after a hard stop. A to high integral gain has also bad influence on fast forward flight: The elevator control feeling becomes doughy and in extreme situations even slow oscillations (approx. 1 Hz) can appear.
With fast cyclic servos integral gain can be increased after the first flights in order to get more flight stability.
Default settings values are from beginner "120" to extreme "60".
(In all five default profiles "Roll I gain" value is identical to "Pitch I gain" value.)
- Roll D gain
The Derivative (D) Gain effects the helicopters behavior after a control input is suddenly released. This Gain allows attenuation of the helicopter body tremor which is generated when the helicopter has been stopped by a sudden movement of the control stick. In the situation where the P Gain and I Gain have been made too large, the helicopter body may oscillate if the sticks are operated by flicking them with your fingers. By increasing the D Gain, the oscillation in the above situation will be reduced, and it will be possible to further increase the I Gain. Care will be required, because if the D Gain is too large, small oscillations may continue, or the vibration of the helicopter may cause sudden and severe hunting to occur.
Default settings values are from beginner to hardcore "0" and in extreme "30".
(In all five default profiles "Roll D gain" value is identical to "Pitch D gain" value.)
- Pitch P gain
Proportional Gain produces an regulative action on the swash plate which is proportional to the measured rate error on the swash plate and thus proportional gain makes the elevator rate follow the rate commanded on the swash sticks. Too high proportional gain can cause a oscillating tendency on elevator in fast forward flight and also a bad stopping behavior on elevator rate changes. Also if this is too high, instability and hunting will tend to occur.
Default "80" in all configurations.
With fast cyclic servos this can be increased.
(In all five default profiles "Roll P gain" value is identical to "Pitch P gain" value.)
- Pitch I gain
Integral gain is responsible that the helicopter keeps the direction under all circumstances. When wind forces the helicopter out of its direction, the integral gain is correcting this. Fast forward flight is also stabilized by the integral gain. Integral gain must be setup so that the helicopter stable during load changes on swash plate. When integral gain is set to high, the stopping behavior on swash plate is influenced negatively: the helicopter gets a tendency to slowly drift back after a hard stop. A to high integral gain has also bad influence on fast forward flight: The elevator control feeling becomes doughy and in extreme situations even slow oscillations (approx. 1 Hz) can appear.
With fast cyclic servos integral gain can be increased after the first flights in order to get more flight stability.
Default settings values are from beginner "120" to extreme "60".
(In all five default profiles "Roll I gain" value is identical to "Pitch I gain" value.)
- Pitch D gain
The Derivative (D) Gain effects the helicopters behavior after a control input is suddenly released. This Gain allows attenuation of the helicopter body tremor which is generated when the helicopter has been stopped by a sudden movement of the control stick. In the situation where the P Gain and I Gain have been made too large, the helicopter body may oscillate if the sticks are operated by flicking them with your fingers. By increasing the D Gain, the oscillation in the above situation will be reduced, and it will be possible to further increase the I Gain. Care will be required, because if the D Gain is too large, small oscillations may continue, or the vibration of the helicopter may cause sudden and severe hunting to occur.
Default settings values are from beginner to hardcore "0" and in extreme "30".
(In all five default profiles "Roll D gain" value is identical to "Pitch D gain" value.)
- Acceleration
Acceleration of the roll and pitch motion.
Roll and pitch acceleration to the desired speed. When this value is high swashplate will tilt fast when stick is moved.
Default "125" in all configurations.
- Deceleration
Deceleration of the roll and pitch motion.
Roll and pitch deceleration to the desired speed or stop. When stick is returned to center it will take some time (delay) from swash to return. It's normal on FBL helicopters and that returning speed can be controlled with this settings. Lower the value means easier to fly, but it loses some "edge" from the controls.
Default settings values are from beginner "40" to extreme "55".
- Swash deadband RC
The deadband of the aileron and elevator sticks
The RC deadband is to ignore input from sticks that don't return to zero and to remove cross channel stick changes when the sticks are moved to the limit on the two axises. To small a value will make it hard to do single axis maneuvers without a change in the other axis (i.e. a flip ends up rolling left or right during the flip...). Bigger value means that you have to move more rudder stick before anything happens.
This avoids drifting from stick pots and servo noise.
Default "40" in all configurations.
- Swash deadband gyro
The deadband of the roll and pitch sensors.
The Gyro deadband is the value used to ignore small changes coming from the gyro MEMS sensors.
This avoids drifting from gyro and servo noise. Big number results in poor stability and drift. Too small a number can overwork your servos.
Default "4" in all configurations.
- Roll agility
It is equivalent to the maximum roll rate.
Bigger the value faster the helicopter makes rolls.
Default settings values are from beginner "30" to extreme "60".
- Pitch agility
It is equivalent to the maximum pitch rate
Bigger the value faster the helicopter makes loops.
Default settings values are from beginner "30" to extreme "60".
Last edited by jaahaavi; Mar 08, 2012 at 05:42 AM. Reason: claried some settings
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Jan 30, 2012, 10:14 AM
Registered User
r75fly's Avatar
Answered so many of my questions all in one thread! Thanks!
Jan 30, 2012, 06:30 PM
What goes up, must............
Thanks a lot. Very good info and easy to read and understand.
Cheers
Feb 01, 2012, 01:21 PM
Registered User
TexasClouds's Avatar
thanks for posting this info!
Feb 02, 2012, 11:14 AM
Registered User
Hi

One thing I would mention is that everywhere I've see 'D Gain' it is referred to Differential Gain. I've seen this on Futaba GY520 gyros, microbeast docs, and Rondo docs.
Here is a link to the Rondo docs which have definitions of the various gains:
http://www.commonsenserc.com/RondoIn...ualEnglish.pdf
Feb 03, 2012, 05:19 AM
Registered User
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucewillman
Hi

One thing I would mention is that everywhere I've see 'D Gain' it is referred to Differential Gain. I've seen this on Futaba GY520 gyros, microbeast docs, and Rondo docs.
Here is a link to the Rondo docs which have definitions of the various gains:
http://www.commonsenserc.com/RondoIn...ualEnglish.pdf
We'll this is confusing
Tarot manual says: "D is Brake gain".
CopterX manual says: "D is Stop gain".
Rondo manual says: "The D-gain is the differential portion of control."

After searching mathematics questions I found:
The derivative refers to the rate at which a function changes with respect to another measure.
The differential refers to the actual change in a function across a parameter.
The differential of a function is equal to its derivative multiplied by the differential of the independent variable.
The derivative of a function is the the LIMIT of the ratio of the increment of a function to the increment of the independent variable as the latter tends to zero.
And as we know these gyros has proportional–integral–derivative controller (PID controller):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller

So I think that the correct term for D is derivative.
Feb 03, 2012, 03:43 PM
Registered User
This is interesting information. It sounds like you are right about it being Derivative Gain. I had not seen that these were PID controllers.
Feb 03, 2012, 06:47 PM
Axes & Blades-Cutlery & Helis
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucewillman
This is interesting information. It sounds like you are right about it being Derivative Gain. I had not seen that these were PID controllers.
Yep, they have P, I, and D parameters, P is input correction which applies a correction which is proportional to the input error. I is the integral or sum of the errors which should be getting smaller, and D is the derivative which is the trend of the error, you want the derivative to get smaller.

The gyros have yaw, pitch, and tail P,I,D parameters, figuring how to adjust them together is tricky, I haven't found out how they play together but adjusting the D yaw and D pitch smaller I have toned the heli down.

I am getting mine to fly pretty nice, hoping this weekend I can get her tweaked perfect.
Feb 06, 2012, 08:20 PM
Registered User
Here is a link to a pretty good discussion of PID control and parameter tuning:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller



Enjoy,

Terry

OOPS, missed the above post!
Last edited by exblade; Feb 06, 2012 at 08:32 PM.
Feb 07, 2012, 11:31 AM
Registered User
This is good stuff, it's fun trying to understand what is going on under the covers.

I maidened the Tarot last weekend, and it was uneventful. It was too windy to work on tweaking, but seems like all that is needed is a little more cyclic pitch.

The settings for the P, I, and D gain used were sort of an average of what other people reported working on similar sized helis.
Feb 07, 2012, 12:28 PM
Registered User
fpainter3's Avatar
There are better but more complex control algorithms available like FUZZY math .

I wonder if the high priced BEASTX and VBAR and Skookum use those?
Feb 07, 2012, 12:37 PM
OlliW
Quote:
Here is a link to a pretty good discussion of PID ... parameter tuning:
but you should keep in mind that these parameter tuning rules will give a good RATE behavior, but will not result in a HEADING HOLD behavior, which is what you want e.g. for the tail, and which needs different tuning recipes.
Feb 08, 2012, 02:18 AM
Registered User
Dr.M's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlliW
but you should keep in mind that these parameter tuning rules will give a good RATE behavior, but will not result in a HEADING HOLD behavior, which is what you want e.g. for the tail, and which needs different tuning recipes.
That's correct. Check this out if you want to be thoroughly confused:
http://www.technotragic.com/index.ph...1&limitstart=3
Feb 08, 2012, 02:44 AM
OlliW
well, to be honest, the explanations in there are IMHO partially very incorrect... the explanation of the accels is quite "creative"... LOL
Feb 09, 2012, 01:09 AM
Registered User
Dr.M's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlliW
well, to be honest, the explanations in there are IMHO partially very incorrect... the explanation of the accels is quite "creative"... LOL
Would you be so kind to elaborate?


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