Freewing Su-35 (Vendor-independent; please read 1st post and stay on-topic) - Page 330 - RC Groups
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Nov 17, 2012, 12:42 PM
In the pipe 5 by 5...
urrl's Avatar
It was really a slowing quickly to a stall effect as if it had air brakes. It would be stalling and dipping on landing, however it did not tip stall to a considerable degree. I suppose I could have learned to anticipate the behavior but I wasn't willing to re-learn my landing technique for this jet. Besides this I am vacationing in Orlando and the small landing area is rough, pot holed asphalt. Someone did a crash land video with the missiles and then the smooth landing video for me without the missiles. Hopefully he will put it on YOUTUBE this evening and I will post a link. I did a few flat spins and other stuff so it should be interesting.
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Nov 17, 2012, 12:49 PM
Registered User
fredmdbud's Avatar
Originally Posted by v8truckin
Hmmm... Interesting. Maybe the spacing on them wasn't the same on each wing. Wouldn't think it would have the big of an effect. Good to know though, sorry about your incident.
Look at the fins on those missiles ... those look to be the source of most of the added drag.
Nov 17, 2012, 01:03 PM
Should've, Would've, Could've
v8truckin's Avatar
Reason I say that is ancluas originally added this same missles Larger and medium or small not sure, but he flew it fine. That's why I was thinking maybe they were not spaced equally this causing an adverse effect of air flow. Just a thought. I do see how those missles can create some good drag.
Nov 17, 2012, 03:10 PM
Registered User
acesimmer's Avatar
Are you doing final with a trim idle power setting to compensate for the drag? I have a switch setup for this due to the winds we get here. If the winds are up I flip the switch to idle up and it allows a more controlled and predictable landing . Once on tera firma flip it to off.
Nov 17, 2012, 07:19 PM
Registered User
If the missiles did anytrhing to "landings" they would have done a lot more to its "flying"!
They rarely bother anything on planes, bar add drag. So your landing speed doesn't change, but how much power you need to use during landing will (could) rise.
It sounds to me like they are 'no power' landings, thus no way to offset that extra drag, whilst hoping it would land the same as without missiles.

Using power can be a somewhat difficult thing to master across all conditions. eg different winds, or a case like this extra drag. You can know how a plane lands under no power, or X power, on a calm day, but alter the wind/drag and getting the real-time power need correct is not easy.
For missiles added you would want to do slow 'landing' passes past yourself, to see how the plane is flying during the process, because when coming in to land you can't 'see speed' properly, because it is coming in almost head-on, and it is easy to be quite wrong about what it is doing and what it truly needs.

"Trim idle power setting" (? what. hehe)
For that sort if idea - which I have not bothered to ever do so far - I would use a switch to mix the throttle down. For eg Switch OFF = normal throttle. Switch ON = % divider limit of throttle.
So when the switch is on - for landings or slow passes - you have it give only 40% throttle at full stick, and still linear down to 0 throttle. Thus making the throttle control a much finer control, plus you can't go over a level that any landing (windy or not) would ever need.
And in a trouble situation, Switch OFF and fly away!

So far I can do it all well enough on the full throttle range anyway, but I can see that a "Landing mode switch" that does a few things all together (power, flaps, other trims) could be handy.
And I guess it depends on what your TX programming is capable of.....
Nov 18, 2012, 08:50 AM
Registered User
acesimmer's Avatar
I may have confused a little. My trim power switch only puts the motors to a low idle so that they are just turning when throttle stick is totally off. Reduces drag by keeping the fans moving and really makes a difference.
Nov 18, 2012, 09:15 AM
In the pipe 5 by 5...
urrl's Avatar
I think I over did it adding three rockets to both wings. The rocket mounts were thick too. Like I say I could have learned to make adjustments but I would need a better runway like back home and the wind is not helping in Orlando. So the missiles are tabled for now and the landings are once again as smooth as butter.
Nov 18, 2012, 10:43 AM
You are a "go" for reentry
Maxthrottle's Avatar
Originally Posted by SU-4ever
..... you enjoy it! Cheers! Jandro.
Very nice compilation. Still trying to figure out if you are going to go into the movie making industry or aviation
You're very good at both.
Nov 18, 2012, 12:12 PM
Flying Hazard
SU-4ever's Avatar
That would be sweeeeet!
Nov 18, 2012, 07:04 PM
Registered User
Quick question. If using a separate receiver battery which should I connect first ? Receiver battery or ESC battery! ( and disconnect )
Nov 18, 2012, 07:21 PM
Flying Hazard
SU-4ever's Avatar
Receiver battery, always first to connect, last to disconnect.
Nov 18, 2012, 09:16 PM
Registered User
Thanks SU-4ever. ( I like your videos )
Nov 19, 2012, 05:45 AM
Registered User
It actaully doesn't matter which you connect first as the ESC's will not arm unless they have an RX throttle signal anyway. So the motors won't start. And even with a signal (of wherever it might come from), it has to be at the low/zero end (of throttle value) for it to arm still anyway.

But, seeing it is just as easy to do it either way, it has to be that little bit safer to do the RX first!! Just in case something goes strangely amiss in the ESC and it does start up at 100% throttle!
I have never seen it, or heard of it, but it is technically possible.... so you may as well remove that potential risk.
Nov 19, 2012, 06:54 AM
Life begins at transition
but some esc's won't arm at all if they don't receive a signal within a certain period. YGE do this (painfull before I figured that out...)
Nov 19, 2012, 04:54 PM
Registered User
The Su-35 finally took to the air once again......
Unfortunately over recent months it has been eclipsed by the awesome Dynam Me-262 so the Su kept getting left aside. And the return to the air today wasn't overly inspiring for the Su.....

One good thing - probably due to raising the nose gear via spacer blocks - is that it took off within the 22metres of the cricket pitch length! And a nice gradual rise too! So I didn't even need to do anything special.
I actually took it to the very end of the cricket pitch, to get every CM possible, with near zero belief it would probably even get airborne - because if it runs out of pitch and gets to the grass it would slow it down too much - and I just said "I am just going for it, and if it runs onto grass (which I expected it would) I will just keep going until it looks bleak and heading to the fence!". Not that I wanted to hit the fence, but you have to give it the distance to even have a hope to get aitborne and by then you aren't going to be stiopping by the fence either! It MUST fly or there will be tears! Which the past flight did get airborne in time - though I started from half way to the other side fence first!

But it was all a big surprise and non-event!!!
I had to go to WOT instantly, to maximise the speed reached in the 22metres. A 2m wide strip and that was no issue to direction, it tracked dead straight fine.
I thought I was going to need some "elevator flick" but before I even got to that point I could see it was rising anyway! I would say the wheels left the deck with a few metres to go, maybe 3m, so the total runout to lift off would have been about 18metres.

As it climbed away - with a slight move to steeper climb rate, to clear trees off the edge of the oval, when I went to level out I found to fly level it needed just over 50% UP elevator! In the take-off excitement I hadn't noticed anything - but interesting that it took off like that!! I think what happened was it took off ok, and once airborne I was real-time flying it to do the climb I wanted, thus of course over-rode the trim issue without even knowing that.
When I let the stick to mid position is dived sharply! Full up trim just got it to fly level!

It didn't fly that well. It was tail dragging through turns. And any banking turn over 40deg or so would turn it into a 'severely falling' aircraft! Not linear as to bank angle, but as if past a certain angle was a cliff.
It was not much fun to fly..... but I did a few tests and then landed. No flaperons or spoilers used and it landed beautifully to scale - still using some % of throttle, maybe 5% to 10% stick?

When I brought it back to the runway.... OH.... flaperons were half way down ALL the time!! ooops. The Flaperon Pot was not dialled back to its zero position, and I had not even noticed that when it was on the runway before!

So what does that mean???
1) Made the plane pitch down a lot.... and needed 8mm of elevator front tip downwards positions (compared to their neutral setup line).
2) Took off very well !!!

That doesn't seem to add up. I would have thought they would IMPEDE take-off!!

So for the next flight I dialled out the Flaperons, of course, and took 4mm of the elevator trim out - leaving some in case it needed it.
The take-off was identical......
The 4mm of up elevator trim was approx correct, so now it showed it was nose heavy - as well as before being 'Flaperon Down Pitched'.
It still dragged the tail down through turns... and "fell" notably on severe banked turns.

I decided (I guess) that the tail dragging turns are because it is nose heavy and the notable up elevator trim for neautral is causing that.
The falling out of turns.... probably half normal, and half due to being nose heavy.
Though I did not balance it so I don't truly know what the CofG was at all.

When I tested "Flight Mode 2 - mixed elevators and ailerons" (they operate in every combination of helping each other) it was very twitchy! So it helped manoueverability a lot, but it wasn't any use trying anything then as it was flying so 'floundering-like' anyway.
I forgot to go back the FM1 for landing!! So that made it fun on the initial approach until I got more tuned in to the sensitivity! Then remembered the FM2 setting after landing.....

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