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Aug 15, 2012, 11:10 AM
Space Coast USA
hoppy's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waltjg
Hoppy, have you been able to nail the weight penalty down for this? Yes, I'm going to try some experiments with this, as I'm always looking for new methods to add strngth without a big weight penalty to my planes.. Thanks for all the input here. w
For weights, see post https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...9&postcount=45

Weight gain is almost 100% with both sides covered. $Tree foam covered on both sides weighs about 34g/sqft.
IMO, the gains from strength, stiffening, painting ease, etc far outweigh the penalty from the weight gain but some light weight small planes probably wouldn't gain much from it. On the other hand, my 48" wingspan WACO biplane made from paper covered $Tree foam has survived many cartwheels with no damage. The worse crash happened this weekend when I clipped a light pole sending the WACO nose first into an asphalt parking lot. I expected to see a real mess but was surprised at how little damage there was. A crack in both wings and the motor shoved into the body. The wingcracks were easily repaired and the nose rebuilt. Oh yes, also had a couple cracked cabanes and wing struts, all easily fixed. Couple hours of work and it's ready to fly again.
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Aug 15, 2012, 12:17 PM
Registered User
Waltjg's Avatar
Thanks Hoppy, doing a test today on this... Great looking Waco too!!! w.
Aug 15, 2012, 12:39 PM
Always Ready!
warhead_71's Avatar
I'm not sure if I ever shared the end-result of the paper covering on my Goose:

Foamie 59" RC Grumman Goose (4 min 55 sec)
Aug 15, 2012, 01:17 PM
Space Coast USA
hoppy's Avatar
Thread OP
WOW, nice job!
Couple of exciting moments there at the end...made me shift in the chair grabbing for the stick LOL. Kind of like the parents of those gymnasts shifting and moving right along with the athlete.

I loved the reactions of the canoe'rs.....what the heck was that? I was hoping for a low level buzzing.
Aug 15, 2012, 07:03 PM
Registered User
Waltjg's Avatar
Wow your goose is fantastic! Thanks for the post, will look in on your build thread! Wl
Aug 21, 2012, 07:16 AM
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Waltjg's Avatar
Guys, I've been doing some tests of my own here, with the newspaper and glue vs wbp/powder and going to look at glass too. First off, I can't believe the strength achieved by the paper/glue/water done on both sides of the foam! Wow is that stuff really strong! Of course there is the weight penalty so it would have to be used smartly.. The paper and glue on one side is still stronger than the wbp and powder, but the are close, I think the weight gain is about the same too... I've just started a glass and resin comparison so don't have the results from that yet,, but that paper and glue thing is really easy and cheap, I'll be using that for sure.. On thing I did experience is that when doing one side at a time and when it dries, it really warped the foam, but when the other side was applied it straightened back out.. W
Aug 21, 2012, 07:49 AM
Space Coast USA
hoppy's Avatar
Thread OP
Hi Waltgj,
I'd be interested in seeing a wbp/powder sample tested like the glue/paper was tested and compare the them. See this post.
Aug 21, 2012, 09:08 AM
low tech high tech
vtdiy's Avatar
My feeling is that paper and Titebond II make for a considerably harder finish than Minwax polycrylic acrylic finish (MPAF). As well as being less expensive.
Aug 21, 2012, 09:11 AM
Gilbert AZ
Agree with VTDIY.
Aug 22, 2012, 02:09 AM
Registered User
p901P901's Avatar
I tried this method on a depron plane using the Yellow pages and Elmer's white glue. It was very hard and sanding was difficult. I also used Mod Podge Hard coat http://www.plaidonline.com/mod-podge...45/product.htm. It was better than paper and glue and easier to sand. Mixed in some Paper Mache Pulp with this also to fill in voids.
Last edited by p901P901; Aug 22, 2012 at 02:23 AM.
Aug 22, 2012, 07:52 AM
Space Coast USA
hoppy's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by p901P901
I tried this method on a depron plane using the Yellow pages and Elmer's white glue. It was very hard and sanding was difficult. I also used Mod Podge Hard coat http://www.plaidonline.com/mod-podge...45/product.htm. It was better than paper and glue ...........
The main object of using the paper/glue is to bulletproof the foam. I'm wondering if the mod-podge provides similar strength. Would you mind running a test like this shown here?
Aug 22, 2012, 09:03 AM
low tech high tech
vtdiy's Avatar
fiber is better than resin

reducing the paper content (phone book paper) and increasing the glue content (thick coating -- mod podge) will increase weight rapidly for a hard surface that is relatively brittle and less resistant to larger blows, though hard enough to resist minor local damage -- maybe even a mousetrap.

the trick is to use only enough resin to bind and fill adequately, then decide if hard resin addition over all is worth the weight for the service requirement. A heavy plane can fly with high power, but that's not always the aim.

to say anything is "better" than anything else in this area, as I have, is always relative to the intent
Aug 22, 2012, 10:15 AM
Registered User
Waltjg's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppy
Hi Waltgj,
I'd be interested in seeing a wbp/powder sample tested like the glue/paper was tested and compare the them. See this post.
Hi Hoppy, I covered that in my test, the paper/glue on one side is abit stronger than the wbp/powder.. weight gain is about the same.. I sat them across two pieces of wood, then place a weight in the middle, the wbp/powder sagged abit more than the paper/glue, and the piece that was treated on both sides with glue/paper didn't sag hardly at all.. w.
Aug 22, 2012, 10:23 AM
Space Coast USA
hoppy's Avatar
Thread OP
Thanks for the feedback Walt.

Oh just remembered another test. Another advantage of the glue/paper is that it's hard to break the foam piece, it just bends/folds instead of snapping in half. What does the powder/wbp do when bent in half?

BTW, I'm not familiar with the details of the powder method, short explanation please. I always like to experiment with new methods.
Aug 22, 2012, 10:37 AM
Registered User
Waltjg's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppy
Thanks for the feedback Walt.

Oh just remembered another test. Another advantage of the glue/paper is that it's hard to break the foam piece, it just bends/folds instead of snapping in half. What does the powder/wbp do when bent in half?

BTW, I'm not familiar with the details of the powder method, short explanation please. I always like to experiment with new methods.
Bending the foam with the paper/glue and the wbp/powder "up" and bending the ends "up" resulted in the foam paper/glue, bending further before foam broke, bending the ends "down" resulted in the paper glue bending further before it broke. In both tests the paper/glue performed better..
wbp/powder,,, water based poly as in "minwax" polycrylic and baby powder(talc based not cornstarch based) mixed together, the ratio is a personal preference... It does offer a protective coat and sands slick after a couple of coats and sanding.. works pretty well in fact..
I am wondering how the paper/glue will take paint, that will be another test maybe today... w.


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