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Dec 11, 2011, 11:53 PM
Watt Waster
Tsavah's Avatar

Acrylic Latex Paint


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cybernaught
Hi SF, Yes I'm using Gloss White exterior/interior acrylic latex house paint. ... I like this method and won't go back now. The results are rigid and light weight. Steve.
That is an interesting idea to use house paint. Since it is acrylic based, I doubt it reacts badly with foam. I am thinking the latex part makes it stretch better before it splits or damages. Have you done any tests with the paint to see what sort of skin it makes? Thanks.
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Dec 12, 2011, 01:34 AM
Onward through the fog.
Cybernaught's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsavah
That is an interesting idea to use house paint. Since it is acrylic based, I doubt it reacts badly with foam. I am thinking the latex part makes it stretch better before it splits or damages. Have you done any tests with the paint to see what sort of skin it makes? Thanks.
When I position the gear in the airframe, I cut a piece of the skin off and make access to recess the receiver, ESC battery etc. The skin is quite flexible and fairly strong. I don't use a lot of latex. Enough to hold the Drywall tape in place and give some protection to the Styrofoam. A thicker coating of the latex makes the skin stronger but not more rigid and it adds weight.

The attached pictures show a piece I just cut from the nose skid of an old Delta. This is what took the landing impact for many flights, and the skin held up much better than the foam it covered.

Hope this answers your question.


Steve.
Dec 12, 2011, 02:08 AM
Watt Waster
Tsavah's Avatar

Dry Wall Tape plus Arcylic Latex House Paint


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cybernaught
... The skin is quite flexible and fairly strong. I don't use a lot of latex. Enough to hold the Drywall tape in place and give some protection to the Styrofoam. A thicker coating of the latex makes the skin stronger but not more rigid and it adds weight. ...
Hope this answers your question. Steve.
I think you are on to something here. Do you have access to the very light spackling compound for dry wall? How about the Polycrylic wood varnish? If you can get both products, you don't need much of the Polycrylic, or another kind of acrylic varnish/paint/floor finish. You can fill the holes in the dry wall tape with the mixture I spoke about without adding any noticeable weight. Then paint on the house paint for a lower drag skin. Of course you could also use smaller screen, like window bug screen. I cannot say for sure at the moment, but it may provide a lower weight netting. For smaller models you can visit the cloth providers and get Tulle either by the 8" wide roll, or cloth. The netting is much smaller, thinner, and almost weightless by comparison. It is also cheaper than dry wall tape where I am. For the 40" plus wing span models, I would still want to go with the dry wall tape, but mostly as a strengthening tape, often the length of the wing span on the COG line, and the bottom for wheeless landers. The key still is a strong, flexible skin that stays put well, which you have found in the house paint. Thanks for the idea.

Oh, I almost forgot to mention, I use a spray glue, light coating from 12"-14" away from the surface of the foam, in a windless environment with ventilation, and then apply the net, or screen material. I use a soft roller to ensure good contact with the glue. After the spray glue has set, I apply the puddy/filler mixture I told you about to fill the holes. After a light sanding where needed, I already have a tough skin, but I always paint/coat it with an acrylic product for extra durability. I am thinking I should try the house paint for the final coating and base color. I may still want to use clear packing tape, or sign vinyl sheet, but then again that may be over-kill and unnecessary weight.
Last edited by Tsavah; Dec 12, 2011 at 02:16 AM. Reason: spelling ...
Dec 12, 2011, 06:40 AM
Onward through the fog.
Cybernaught's Avatar
Tsavah'

I have not found any light weight spakling here. I am out in the provinces and though Cebu is the second largest City in the Philippines and reasonably close we only go there about twice a year and then it's a one day trip with not much time to shop around. Spray glues and fancy stuff like that are not available locally.

I'm glad you find some of the techniques I use interesting and I hope you can add some of my ideas to your own methods. We are all in this together and I have used many things that I have picked up from others on these forums.

Enjoy!


Steve.
Dec 12, 2011, 11:56 AM
Watt Waster
Tsavah's Avatar

Sharing Ideas, methods, and ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cybernaught
Tsavah' I have not found any light weight spackling here. I am out in the provinces and though Cebu is the second largest City in the Philippines, and reasonably close, we only go there about twice a year, and then it's a one day trip with not much time to shop around. Spray glues and fancy stuff like that are not available locally. I'm glad you find some of the techniques I use interesting and I hope you can add some of my ideas to your own methods. We are all in this together and I have used many things that I have picked up from others on these forums. Enjoy! Steve.
I feel your pain when looking for specific types of products. I have six products I wish I had access to here, like Depron foam board, a hobby shop, and ... well the list continues to grow. What I have found is good substitutes that work well, or even better than what others are recommending. One example is the lightweight spackling compound for dry wall repairs. I was in Walmart almost a year ago and was in the paint/tape/miscellaneous repair section when I came across the spackling compounds. The first tub I picked up weighted a ton, but right next to it was small tubs of the lightweight stuff. When I picked up the plastic tub it felt empty, so I picked up a few more on the shelf. They all felt empty, so right off I was thinking; "Hey, this is something to investigate and experiment with!" I got a clue what to look for from a few folks in RC Groups from a few of the too many threads I had subscribed to. A key point is it needs to be acrylic based and very lightweight. I think you know by now I am very pleased with my mix of the spackling compound with a very small amount of acrylic paint and varnish applied over Tulle cloth, plastic bug screen, and in the near future; aluminum bug screen and dry wall tape. I already have a small collection of dry wall tapes and aluminum bug screen.

I need bigger projects for the aluminum and plastic bug screen, as well as the dry wall tape since the skin they will produce is over-kill for flyers with a wing span under 40". Of course if that is all you have to work with, that changes things a bit. I will be using the heavier, thicker screening/netting for the belly of "sliders" without landing gear, and for thinner stress relief, where some folks are using fiber reinforced packing tape. One example would be my FlyLite by ElectriFly. Instead of using a wood dowel, or carbon fiber rod/tube for the wing spar, fibered tape is applied the full length of the wing on the COG. The fibered tape prevents the wing from folding when pulling out of a dive, or other high G maneuvers. It is a very simple method for strengthening the thin foam, curved wing, and very effective for the lightweight plane. If I ever build a wing of this style and the fan fold foam I baked at low heat on a "rib box" to convince the foam to have a thin, under-chambered wing, I will apply the tape for the same reason. If it turns out I need a bit more resistance to folding under high G, I will use the dry wall tape since it is obviously stronger if glued in place with epoxy and filled with the dry wall puddy mixture. Thanks for the idea!
Latest blog entry: Center of Gravity - Airplanes
Dec 12, 2011, 03:28 PM
Onward through the fog.
Cybernaught's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsavah
I feel your pain...
,,,Thanks for the idea!
The thing I miss the most being here is that I can't go to a local restaurant and have Chicken Fried Steak and Eggs for breakfast...

Most of my planes are relatively small. bigger planes with landing gear etc need more room to fly and my place isn't conducive to that.

Where do you live?

Steve.
Dec 12, 2011, 07:22 PM
Watt Waster
Tsavah's Avatar

My Kingdom for a Space to Fly the Big'ums


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cybernaught
... Most of my planes are relatively small. bigger planes with landing gear etc need more room to fly and my place isn't conducive to that. Where do you live? Steve.
Space to fly in the Midwest out of town isn't hard to come by. If I do the park flyers or smaller, I can go to my 5 acre goat farm, which has no goats at the present since two guys came over for a free male and ended up buying the small herd. If I actually do build something larger than 40" wing span, I may have to join the RC club again, pay the $100 annual dues and drive for half an hour to the field. Seems like a bit more expense than I am willing to pay, so I haven't renewed yet. My space limitation for now is focused on a place to build flyers. What I need is a large storage shed so I can clean out the garage again.
Latest blog entry: Center of Gravity - Airplanes
Dec 14, 2011, 08:38 AM
Onward through the fog.
Cybernaught's Avatar
I have plenty of room over the water but if I dip it in the drink, I lose gear!
I have plenty of build room in the garage but not much storage space. I don't let the fleet get over 6 planes and I usually have about 3.

The build part of this thread is pretty complete now. We'll see how much interest it generates.

Steve.
Last edited by Cybernaught; Dec 14, 2011 at 08:45 AM.
Dec 14, 2011, 12:19 PM
Watt Waster
Tsavah's Avatar

Build, or not to start yet, that is the ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cybernaught
I have plenty of room over the water but if I dip it in the drink, I lose gear! I have plenty of build room in the garage but not much storage space. I don't let the fleet get over 6 planes and I usually have about 3. The build part of this thread is pretty complete now. We'll see how much interest it generates. Steve.
I am thinking more pictures that show up on the blogs. I really should try and get a few projects done before I start another, lol. I am finding it really, really hard not to start this one.
Latest blog entry: Center of Gravity - Airplanes
Dec 15, 2011, 04:17 AM
Onward through the fog.
Cybernaught's Avatar
So many projects and so little time. I know the feeling.


I have been flying the new Gull a lot, most mornings I get a few flights in. It is more stable than the original but quite a bit faster, with the new leading edge. I have had it up in winds I would not have flown in before. The glide is better too so landings take a bit more thought to setup.
Dec 15, 2011, 07:25 AM
Watt Waster
Tsavah's Avatar

More Dry Wall Tape


I recently discovered there is a "thin" dry wall tape, and one for cement board. All are still labeled as fiber glass, but the weave is different to some degree. One difference is the size of the 'holes" and the other is how thick the fiber glass is. So far the weight seems to be more or less the same, but some tapes are 2" wide and some are less. Interesting options, but for the most part, how they are used depends on the project and the builder. I will be posting some ideas, test results, and possible options in the weeks ahead for folks to think about and try. I also picked up two different brands of Acrylic Latex paint to try out. I didn't want to buy a gallon, so I limited my purchases to the pint sized cans. One is a base with no color, so I am thinking it will look milky in the can and dry clear. An obvious option for a clear coat and a base paint to add fillers, as well as color. I am also wondering how it will mix with the lightweight spackling compound and if there will be an advantage of some sort other than lower cost?
Latest blog entry: Center of Gravity - Airplanes
Dec 15, 2011, 08:55 AM
gpw
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
gpw's Avatar
Steve, I can’t but help going back to the video over and over , enjoying the beautiful bird-like flight of your Gull...
Thanks for the most thorough build details ... Super Job !!!

Having built quite a few beaded foam planes back in the gas days (Gas? ) we found a very light fabric glued over the foam with 50/50 T2 and water made a strong and attractive covering, and significantly increased the strength of the parts ... Latex paint sprayed thinly made a good finish ... not that heavy ... seems you should have access to some very nice light tropical fabrics there ... just another idea ...
Latest blog entry: Lost plans
Dec 15, 2011, 11:44 AM
Watt Waster
Tsavah's Avatar

T2 and water?


Quote:
Originally Posted by gpw
... we found a very light fabric glued over the foam with 50/50 T2 and water made a strong and attractive covering, and significantly increased the strength of the parts ...
The lightweight fabric part I understand and have been using Tulle, but what is T2? Is it a glue of some sort?
Latest blog entry: Center of Gravity - Airplanes
Dec 15, 2011, 01:59 PM
gpw
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
gpw's Avatar
Titebond 2 , in the old days it was Elmer’s carpenters glue ... Titebond 3 now is totally waterproof ... may be even better
Latest blog entry: Lost plans
Dec 15, 2011, 07:08 PM
Onward through the fog.
Cybernaught's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpw
Titebond 2 , in the old days it was Elmer’s carpenters glue ... Titebond 3 now is totally waterproof ... may be even better
In the earlier efforts with this building technique I mixed a little Elmer's type glue with the latex. I found that it wasn't needed in my experiments and while a smooth finish is probably best I justify my uneven finish to the scientifically proven advantage of the "Golf-Ball" finish and its drag reducing properties. The truth is I'm just a simple guy. The way I do it has come about from looking to keep things uncomplicated and do-able with the stuff I can find locally. It came about because I couldn't find the materials I had been using before this and I wasn't going to let it stop me from building my planes...

My intention was to start this thread as a way to let other folks enjoy the Gull. I do think it's a good RET, has excellent handling properties and really looks good in the air. I enjoy it so I wanted to share that. Some of you had expressed an interest in it and encouraged me, as well.

This thread is about the Gull but it's also about the building method I used and illustrated in the Build Photos, when I put it together and I'm surprised that this building technique is generating some interest.

I am very interested in your experiments and I would enjoy seeing your results and comments posted here.

Steve.


Edit
I just posted another video on page one post #7.
Last edited by Cybernaught; Dec 16, 2011 at 03:09 AM.


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