Thread Tools
Dec 03, 2011, 01:21 AM
Gearmotors for high thrust /1S
Vladimir88's Avatar
Thread OP
Discussion

Maximum thrust micro- brushless motors with powered only by 1S.


This theme is designed for those who want to make micro model airplane with the lightest weight, but with high enough thrust.
In order to achieve the lightest weight need use lighter batteries 1S with a capacity of and 360 mAh and limiting currents of up to 3 ... 5 Amps.
For large values ​​of currents, in my opinion it makes no sense to use 1S.
When using power 1S there are serious problems in the efficiency of motors and ESC and this theme is designed to find the most effective solutions.




Unfortunately such a subject I started long ago (https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...ght=mm+13+4+8t), but she did not find the responses is likely due to the high price of motors, referred to therein.



Went on sale new and inexpensive brushless motor with a high ratio thrust to weight - "AP05 1S 5000KV" http://www.overskyrc.com/index.php?g...13&productname =

"...
KV: 5000
Idle current:0.4A/3.5V
Max current:5A instant(10 seconds):6A
Pack working with:1S lipo pack
Diameter:13mm length:14mm Shaft:1.5mm Weight:5.4g( including the motor mount and the wires)
Test data:
5030 prop 3.7V/4.5A/90g thrust

Efficiency:.5.4g/W

The thrust with 5030 prop is 90g..."


If "HobbyKing" would agree to sell these motors, the price may be a similar price to the motor "AP05 3000kv" - https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...tor_5_4g_.html

Great motor, but it requires a powerful battery, not less than 240 mhA(25C), 1S.
Last edited by Vladimir88; Dec 29, 2011 at 07:03 AM.
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Dec 03, 2011, 08:51 AM
Registered User
starscream4002's Avatar
wow, that's great! what is the difference between a 5000KV motor and a 3000KV motor? what is this KV all about?

SS
Dec 03, 2011, 09:23 AM
Registered User
Frojd's Avatar
KV is a measurement of how fast the motor wants to spin at a certain voltage. 5000KV means that it will spin with 5000rpm @ 1.0V, and 10 000rpm @2.0V, given no friction. It's one of the parameters used to determine which prop is appropriate for a certain motor, a higher KV means it will be more suitable spinning a relatively smaller prop. In this specific case the AP05 3000KV is a bit to "cold" to get some real thrust on 1s (3.7V), but the 5000KV version will provide a lot more thrust with the same prop (with much higher current consumption as a drawback).
Dec 03, 2011, 03:34 PM
Registered User
richard hanson's Avatar
These ratings are extremely misleading and confusing.
KV is seemingly straightforward but the amperage must be noted.
A novice may pay strict attention to mfgrs rating and prop size - yet find the power is lower than expected and much lower than others claim with same setups .
The mfgr must assume the worst case - someone running the motor at full tilt for extended periods.
The result being a burned motor
However in cases where the flier is using throttle to hit power only when needed (aerobatic flying) the prop load may be much more than recommended yet the overheating does not occur!
The batteries -if of low output- can also change the EFFECTIVE voltage going to the motor.
I have not seen a really good basic primer which covers all of these variables .

Perhaps one exists -
Dec 03, 2011, 04:21 PM
Ego varius quis.
Cheesehead's Avatar
4.5A on a 5030 seems more or less in-line with g/w on the regular AP05 at a proportionally higher voltage. 1s cells are convenient and often seem to be much lighter than 2s packs of half the capacity, though this may be due to construction.

That said, good ESCs seem are a bit rare for models this size, and if Vlad's measurements are correct, it might just be more sensible to use a 2s setup and save more weight elsewhere.

Also, for small 3D models where the weight savings are most important, it makes more sense to use a geared motor with a smaller battery. Decreasing pitch speed isn't a big deal for a model that flies at 8mph.
Dec 03, 2011, 05:13 PM
Way to many airplanes!
If Vlad say it's good on 1S, I don't need anything more... Though I know he has a tendancy to use very expensive ESC and fancy gearboxes. Oh well!
Dec 03, 2011, 05:34 PM
Registered User
I R Irv's Avatar
Looks like Vlad got all his info straight from Oversky.
TODD
Dec 03, 2011, 07:01 PM
Registered User
richard hanson's Avatar
we are using the ESC/RX/servo setup from EFlite - with motors from Hobby King - for two cells and using two individual single cells in series -
for tiny setups the brushless esc from Hobby King-plugged into the 6400 rx from EFlite- the smaller motors work with this (smaller than the 180 EFlite Brushless )
I really don't care for gearboxes anymore tho efficiency is higher -
Dec 03, 2011, 09:24 PM
Ego varius quis.
Cheesehead's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by I R Irv
Looks like Vlad got all his info straight from Oversky.
TODD
Yes, but it's awfully close to the 3000kV AP05 on 2/3 more voltage. I'd be curious as to what ESC they're using, though; as Vlad mentioned, there's a lot of variability.
Dec 04, 2011, 12:24 AM
Gearmotors for high thrust /1S
Vladimir88's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by I R Irv
Looks like Vlad got all his info straight from Oversky.
TODD
Yes it is.
Oversky currently the only manufacturer of efficient micro-motors to gearboxes, so I have regular contact with them.
They also told me that the motor "AP05 5000KV" should appear in the next few days on sale "HobbyKing".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesehead
Yes, but it's awfully close to the 3000kV AP05 on 2/3 more voltage. I'd be curious as to what ESC they're using, though; as Vlad mentioned, there's a lot of variability.
I guess with this engine they use ESC "XP-7A".
Maybe in 3-4 weeks I will get this engine and can measure its parameters with different ESC.
Dec 11, 2011, 08:17 AM
Once crash at a time
Bowerz's Avatar
Anybody got the best prop for the 3000kv on 2s? Putting it on a flying wing with a tractor prop on the front for combat
Dec 11, 2011, 10:48 AM
Registered User
dcwwcp's Avatar
I've used a GWS 5030 and the 5043 with great succes on the AP05 3000kv with 2s.
Dec 12, 2011, 05:35 PM
Registered User
indoor_fr's Avatar
I'm looking for that kind of motor, and there are not a lot which offer such a high thrust on 1S.

This is interesting for 3D planes weighing 40-70g, although i don't think that the thrust will be as good as 90g.
The current is a little too high.

There is an other motor, the GP15 12W Bronco from Gasparin which weighs 7g, (2g more) but which gives 90g of thrust at only 3.6A.
This is almost 1A less, thus the battery can be smaller.
Of course the price is higher.

http://www.micronradiocontrol.co.uk/....html#gp15-12w
Dec 12, 2011, 06:11 PM
Ego varius quis.
Cheesehead's Avatar
That's a pretty nice motor. Where all of this gets a bit strange is that the spec listed is on a not very good ESC. High-end ESCs can make a *big* difference on 1-cell. I don't actually know why, but Vlad has some very consistent results.

Also, consider that thrust often requires an exponential amount of power. Not only is the thrust higher - the pitch is higher, too.
Dec 12, 2011, 08:36 PM
TheyreComingToTakeMeAway!
derk's Avatar
the gasparin motors are also of very high quality and thus price. average is about $85 US for one motor. http://gasparin.cz/?show=frames&site...hatsnew&lng=en
current conversion rates: 1,575.00 CZK = 80.6920 USD
so if you look at dollars per watt per grams, the clear one is the AP line of motors. though the gasparins are wonderful little motors.


Quick Reply
Message:

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Data Gearbox with brushless micro-motor to achieve maximum thrust with powered only by 1S. Vladimir88 Scratchbuilt Indoor and Micro Models 346 May 17, 2021 11:57 PM
Discussion Seems two brushless motors on one esc is possible SARCFAN Racing Boats - Electric 6 May 08, 2011 01:28 AM
New Product Maximum- possible thrust brushless motors with 1-cell Vladimir88 Scratchbuilt Indoor and Micro Models 1 Jun 03, 2010 05:11 AM
Twin brushless motors with ONE ESC is it possible for MY E-STARTER TWIN ? agapornis Power Systems 3 Jun 05, 2005 11:45 AM
Should brushless ESC only be used with brushless motors? twinster2 Power Systems 4 Feb 09, 2002 01:47 PM