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That is what a Forum is for, isn't it? To discuss. But what you mentioned is totally correct. However, I actually just wanted to point out the difference on either the Euro or F-18 with a good battery that can make a watts difference, if you know what I mean NS. |
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NS true. But since the requester asked about just a motor not specifying which fan, that could make all the difference to not needing too much battery or have spare watts that he never uses with the exception of just going faster.
When you look at mainly watts you forget to look at what may be getting lost in wire, connectors, ESC, fan, motor bearing etc. All of that is friction that requires more watts to turn the fan. So poorly designed fan can draw huge watts but move little air. I agree that you want to optimize all your options, battery included. But you can also be too heavy or add unnecessary weight that forces the need for the extra watts to maintain flight profile. At a glance the motor presented wouldn't have been my flight choice either though. |
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Ok so I am editing my post as I did finally find a good pic of the battery bay. I have a 2 power choices in mind that after seeing a pic the NS posted of the battery bay might be very good choices. But hinge on what size the batteries are pictured. I can see they are 3S but are they 3000's, 3200's, 3300's? By the looks of them appear to be 3000's, NS?
So here are my ideas. 1. There is of course my usual 70mm setup which is the good ole HET 2W-20 in either a HET or Wemo fan depending on what you want current consumption wise. Because I see this bird will be alot like the 34 and just wont be a speed record holder although with higher thrust could be an awesome airshow bird. With either fan you can run the setup with as small as a 3200 30C 4S pack which by the looks of the bay should fit easily. The bay looks like it could fit up to a 3600 given the right pack. Watts 700-850 per side 2. This is fast becoming one of my favorite setups because of its price and the performance given. The Dynam Meteor power package. It runs well on 4S but really comes alive on 5S without changing anything in the setup but the battery. It also can run on small enough packs to fit easily. On 4S it might be a bit anemic in this bird but on 5S this bird might be a real blast. I run this setup in 2 birds now on 5S 3000 30C packs and get 4-4:30 depending on how heavy my thumb is. Watts 4S 500-650 and 5S 900-1050 per side. Thoughts? Jason |
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Last edited by FresnoJay; Jan 03, 2012 at 01:41 PM.
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You went 5000 on the SU34 but we are trying to figure out a mishap from the other thread if there is issue with cg and larger single batteries. |
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Max, Not sure on thrust but on 4S=45-48A approx 600-650W, 5S=56-59A=900-1050W. Its all about how much batt you have. In the Meteor there is quite a noticeable difference from 4S to 5S performance wise. At least 15-20mph difference or so it seems.
As far as packs. Weight of 2 will typically be more than the weight of 1 to get a given performance. C rating also plays a roll as well. The biggest limiting factor is whether the larger pack will fit or will the 2 packs be a better choice for given amount of room. But moving battery around for CG can have adverse effects as well. Especially when you get CG and CL close to each other. What was the mishap that occured? I think I missed it. Jason |
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See the other thread... https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show....php?t=1562646 Not sure about the actual cause but the pilot had concerns with cg and his 5000mAh battery. he moved it as far forward as he could in the bay but said the models attitude was tail low. It could have been for other config reasons, which I suspect but no one has given the available dimensions of the battery bay to determine if getting a large battery may not allow you to move it forward enough to maintain the right cg..... So I guess I'll only know when I get mine this week hopefully. |
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Max, The draw on these motors isn't that bad and think they would do nicely in this bird with what I have seen. I Pm'ed V8 and hopefully he will give me a call or pm me back so we can get him squared away. I have some thoughts on what might have happened but there is too much to read with the thread being all over the place to make any sense to me. That or my ADHD kicks my butt wanting to get to the point. In any case V8Truckin lives close enough that we might even be able to meet up and give the bird a good going over in person.
Jason |
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My guess was in my last post to him. But then I wasn't there. So its hard to tell what if anything that he may have overlooked or from his description of events.
We spoke on the Euro thread about take offs and it sounds like he encountered one of my concerns re roll out and if he set up the pitch movement to be too sensitive, since the manual doesn't instruct the linkage assembley, that may have made it a hand full once he was air born. But again speculation. To better guide everyone since the manual is not specific it would be nice to know what happened and what to avoid if it was more than an oversight. |
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Well since this bird has an all flying stab it doesn't need to move much. I found this out the hard way on my EFlite F-15. It flew like it was tail heavy on the maiden but in all reality I had WAY too much throw. On the maiden I had about 1" throw both ways . In the end the bird flew best and least scary with about maybe 3/8"-1/2" both ways of center. That could very well be the case. AoA on the ground may play a part as you mentioned as well, but we shall see.
Jason |
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Hi guys
I had a bit of an accident and I am not in a good condition right now... I can't see properly with my right eye Unfortunately I won't be able to do much for now. Before the Accident, I checked the location of the Fans and realized that the Cable from the motor to the esc is going to be very long. So I may be using 10-11 awg cables maybe or even 12awg since 10awg cables are a bit on the heavy side. In Regards to the motor setup, I may be choosing a lower kv motor with a bit less thrust, so that I am gonna be around the 100amp range instead of 130+amp range, don't want to purchase another larger capacity Battery just for 1 Jet. Thrust will still be however over 3kgs, like around 3.5 instead of the targeted 4.2kg. I am still waiting for my speed controllers and bec to come in, plus my Fans should be within the next 3 weeks hopefully with me. The SU-35 is now however almost finished. NS. |
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NS hopefully nothing too serious re your eye.
Motor wires being long? I thought the ESCs sit right beside the fan and the battery cable was going to be long..... Which again was why I asked for those lengths; fan to ESC, ESC to Batts... to estimate necessary gauge and potential line loses. Generally 300mm is max on either side of the ESC. Less is better and hopefully connecting the batt on this one will be easier than the Euro. |
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Something hit my eye that endured a lot of pain, my right eye keeps dropping water and it hurts quite a bit. I made a Picture to which you can see the EDF Access Hatch plus cable area and the esc access bay. The medium cable "tunnel" will be covered later, so if you put your escs in there, there will be not enough airflow from them to be properly cooled, plus you may won't have enough space to fit 2x escs depending on the size to each other. The esc access bay has good air flow and you can see, that it will leave fresh air through those rippled openings. So the esc cable from the motor to the esc will be the longest and not the other way around. That is also like that on the rtf/pnp version of the SU-35. Regards NS. |
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On the first pic you can see the actual length from the esc access bay to where the motor cables will come out from, maybe if they are long enough.
2nd Pic shows how close the esc access is from the battery compartment . Regards NS. |
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Small thing; it looks like you turned the centre channel vent around to exhaust rather than take air in.
How deep is that centre channel? Either way I was going to see if I could mount my ESC's the same way I did with my 34. Add a cheat at the top of the duct just ahead of the fan almost like the Euro and put the ESC in it. That took care of air flow over the ESC by sucking air through the internals of the fuse including the center channel, into the duct. I figure it to be hollow like the 34 since the Mains and the aileron radio wires run above the duct. Freewing likely wouldn't make it solid foam if I'm seeing your pictures correctly. If its not hollow where I hope it to be then I was going to cut just under the existing cheats and place the ESC's side by side partially in the duct partially in the channel partially exposed running the wires through the centre channel. For you though with larger battery I would have thought you wanted to keep some weight in the tail.The over all weight of the wire unless you gauge up is the same cause you're just repositioning the ESCs. |
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