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Old Oct 01, 2012, 09:42 AM
sgbfly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busher View Post
In respect to the nose pitch up in FFF, I have just read on another forum a similar problem, where the ZYX equipped heli would become very pitch sensitive in FFF, however in a different situation, the two could be very well associated but may be a route to an answer.
His problem only occured in FFF but he did not report that the heli did the command itself. He reported that condition made the heli super sensitive to a pitch input i.e a small input made a large change of movement to the heli, So my question is are you by any chance putting small pressure on the elevator stick without realising it? Or have you got a dicky pot on the TX that puts in a slight elevator response around the centre. These are just suggestions by the way as I can tell you are pretty meticulous in your build and test procedures and would not want to upset you in any way.
I'm not upset in the slightest - it's a good point. The helicopter can be most easily pushed over the edge when transitioning from nose-down FFF to level flight. Then the dis-symmetry of lift (dol) causes the heli to nose-up abruptly. So, yes, in this case the slightest touch on the ele is involved to level the helicopter and the sudden nose-up then happens. However, it can also do this all by itself in FFF if a gust of wind is involved giving the same result. The gyro has no answer to this in FW 3.5 whereas earlier versions do (I have test flown the same helicopter back to back with different firmware versions and only v3.5 has the FFF problem).

S
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Old Oct 01, 2012, 11:28 AM
fpainter3 is online now
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I will just fly slowly until V3.6 or so comes out .
Old Oct 01, 2012, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgbfly View Post
I'm not upset in the slightest - it's a good point. The helicopter can be most easily pushed over the edge when transitioning from nose-down FFF to level flight. Then the dis-symmetry of lift (dol) causes the heli to nose-up abruptly. So, yes, in this case the slightest touch on the ele is involved to level the helicopter and the sudden nose-up then happens. However, it can also do this all by itself in FFF if a gust of wind is involved giving the same result. The gyro has no answer to this in FW 3.5 whereas earlier versions do (I have test flown the same helicopter back to back with different firmware versions and only v3.5 has the FFF problem).

S
No probs I realised that it was 3.5 based but did not know it was exclusive to 3.5, we will have to hope that tarot come out with an upgrade soon.
Old Oct 01, 2012, 01:59 PM
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FBL and Transmitter Duel Rates


While going back and doing a proper complete setup of the Tarot ZYX-S and my DX7 I made an observation which was news to me.

The servos will move the same amount (full set travel range ) if the Tx is set to 100% or with D/R set as low as 30% . The difference is that with very low D/R settings the servos move in slow motion.

I have read cautions about not using Expo. with some FBL units . Something about causing Expo. on top of Expo. This to me sounds like some FBL units either have Expo. or perhaps the poster was refering the FBL gains to being same as Expo..

Any FBL experts care to clear this up for me.


I do now that with Tx. Ail. and Elev. settings of 100% and 40% Expo. and
D/R 75% and 40% Expo that the D/R settings feel softer. I assumed it was due to reduced Servo throw but now it would seem it ( D/R) slows servo travel down.


Edit:

Went back a ways a found this post by 2Doggs on D/R

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...postcount=5253

I agree lowered D/R makes it feel softer but has anyone in fact checked to see if they infact reduce total servo travel or merely slow the servos responce down?




Charles
Last edited by everydayflyer; Oct 01, 2012 at 03:30 PM.
Old Oct 01, 2012, 04:08 PM
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Using D/R on your cyclic will definitely soften the feel of the heli. On the bench, you won't see smaller cyclic deflection with reduced D/R - but you may notice the swash move more slowly. The servo limits remain the same in the FBL controller, but with D/R enabled, it is seeing a demand for a lower rate of change. That is in contrast to the way D/R would work with servos hooked up directly to the RX, where you simply see reduced servo travel.

Even if the controller has some built-in expo, you can use expo in your TX to get the feel you prefer around neutral.

It's very easy to check all of this out in reality. For example, you could set up your stunt 1 and 2 modes with exactly the same pitch and throttle curves, but add lower D/R in one mode, and then repeat the exercise setting higher expo in that mode.

You would typically have D/R less than 100% in normal mode, and maybe use more expo in that mode too.
Old Oct 01, 2012, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
Using D/R on your cyclic will definitely soften the feel of the heli. On the bench, you won't see smaller cyclic deflection with reduced D/R - but you may notice the swash move more slowly. The servo limits remain the same in the FBL controller, but with D/R enabled, it is seeing a demand for a lower rate of change. That is in contrast to the way D/R would work with servos hooked up directly to the RX, where you simply see reduced servo travel
.


Quote:
The servo limits remain the same in the FBL controller
Thanks for clearing that up for me. I knew that is what I was seeing on the bench.

Also knew that responce was much softer with D/R at 75% even though I had the same Expo set for both 100 % and 75%.

Learning the ends and outs of a FBL unit has been an interesting journey and this past week i feel I have learned a great deal but still have only scratched the surface.

Charles
Old Oct 01, 2012, 04:44 PM
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Thanks for all the help! Sgbfly your videos were very helpful.

My heli flew like a champ on my first attempt, un-fortunately was I so shakey and nervous I freaked out and botched a landing. ( wasn't smart to try to land where I was also ). Oh well its all fixed up in about 10minutes just waiting on some new landing skids.

Edit: Oh on dual rates, I turned mine down to 70% for my first 450 flight and hated it. felt really laggy? felt like I had to move the sticks a lot was freaking me out how much I was moving them.

Tarot 450 PRO V2 FBL (4 min 0 sec)
Last edited by KTMDirtFace; Oct 01, 2012 at 04:51 PM.
Old Oct 01, 2012, 04:53 PM
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The "expo on expo" comment is based upon dire warnings from Stefan from Beastx, he has said that their FBL unit has expo built into most of the different models (all except Transmitter) and if you add expo in the tranmitter settings you can end up with very strange behaviours when you get "expo on expo" and the movements can be very strange.

This is not the case for the ZYX where Tarot recommend using expo
Old Oct 01, 2012, 06:22 PM
Sebi97 is offline
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Can I plug this directly into a orange Satellite from Hobbyking? Thats what the product description says, so i would think ot would work... Thanks!
Old Oct 01, 2012, 08:01 PM
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see post here


https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...postcount=5239
Old Oct 01, 2012, 11:42 PM
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From 2:40. you can see at 3 occasions the pitch up uncontrolled. FFF into strong wing. Definitely something wrong with v3.5

Tarot ZYX-S ver.3.5 (4 min 26 sec)
Old Oct 02, 2012, 12:13 AM
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Choopie that violent climb up is not from you? its doing it on its own? dang..
Old Oct 02, 2012, 12:23 AM
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Never really had anything like that happen with two 450 & two 500s all with ZYX, ZYX-S and 3.50. I have seen 450s get twitchy in elevator at very high speeds, say at the top speed of a 450 after a dive with lots of collective, but nothing like the video. It's more of an overcorrection on my part I think.
Old Oct 02, 2012, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
While going back and doing a proper complete setup of the Tarot ZYX-S and my DX7 I made an observation which was news to me.

The servos will move the same amount (full set travel range ) if the Tx is set to 100% or with D/R set as low as 30% . The difference is that with very low D/R settings the servos move in slow motion.

I have read cautions about not using Expo. with some FBL units . Something about causing Expo. on top of Expo. This to me sounds like some FBL units either have Expo. or perhaps the poster was refering the FBL gains to being same as Expo..

Any FBL experts care to clear this up for me.


I do now that with Tx. Ail. and Elev. settings of 100% and 40% Expo. and
D/R 75% and 40% Expo that the D/R settings feel softer. I assumed it was due to reduced Servo throw but now it would seem it ( D/R) slows servo travel down.


Edit:

Went back a ways a found this post by 2Doggs on D/R

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...postcount=5253

I agree lowered D/R makes it feel softer but has anyone in fact checked to see if they infact reduce total servo travel or merely slow the servos responce down?




Charles
It won't cause servos to slow down for sure, just less max throws when using D/R. The bench testing without spinning the head is not a good test for all of this. Expo might make the initial response a bit slower before movement really kicks in but with fbl we can use as much agility as possible, something best achieved through 100% throws and proper mechanical setup.

The pitching up issue could easily have to do with a jump in pitch creating too much torque to handle. But it still sounds like something that should be fixable. Not sure about v3.5 though, so far I've not felt the need to update. And the FFF issue is not something I'd want (not saying there's no issue).
Old Oct 02, 2012, 03:18 AM
BonBonU is offline
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firmware version


just got used zyx-s gyro /w usb cable from club member. I want to know how to find out what firmware being used.

load John's software and tarot 3.0 software but still cannot figure out.


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