Pioneer Glider - Page 7 - RC Groups
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Mar 12, 2012, 10:17 AM
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On the other thread: and earlier on this thread the CG seems pretty clear that it was based on real world flying by "twiztidbowler". As posted earlier by "twiztidbowler" that the CG of 35 NOT 40-42. Am I missing something?

Last edited by topher39; Mar 12, 2012 at 10:22 AM.
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Mar 12, 2012, 11:21 AM
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Joe Pierson's Avatar
I do agree with that! So we will have to wait untill one of us gives ours a throw into the wind
to know for sure!!
Mar 13, 2012, 10:20 AM
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This plane has really gotten under my skin, I am about ready to pull the trigger to order on - just so unique! On the fence!
Mar 16, 2012, 10:04 PM
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To buy or not to buy.

When is someone going to post more video of this bird flying and a Maiden flight debriefing. This bird looks promising for fpv, Looks like a lot of room under the hood. I think his bird needs to be marketed more.
Mar 18, 2012, 12:57 AM
Person of interest
KiwiKid's Avatar
I have a number of flying wings and have found that, as well as the CG being critical, it is vital to have the right amount of reflex dialed in. Did any of you notice in that vid on the German retail site (that Nando.Edge posted a link to) how much reflex the guy had on the elevators and ailerons.

Looks like about 8/10mm on the elevators and 2/3mm on the ailerons. This is VERY important or you will suffer extreme pitch down tendancies, particularly on power up (sound familiar Biggles). I am surprised that the German guy had enough elevator throw left to do quite a tight loop, indicating that the model is quite pitch sensative, which you would expect.

The model seems a bit lethargic in turns (certainly haven't seen anyone do a roll yet) and I think that it would be an interesting experiment to play around with the set up. One option would be to extend the elevator further out towards the end of the wing, then run the controls as elevons (with reflex!) - just by Y leading the servos I guess or by mixing.
Mar 19, 2012, 05:59 PM
Lost in the Sky
Richard N's Avatar

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Jun 07, 2012, 07:11 AM
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cambridgekiwi's Avatar
Not sure how you guys are getting on - however I do have a suggestion and some observations. I fly LOTS of flying wings off the slopes, and plank style slopers have REALLY TIGHT tolerances on the CG position, often a difference of 1mm (0.039") will mean the difference between good stable flight and being either nose or tail heavy. If you can get the model up and slope soar it with a CG close to where it should be, you can test (and hopefully recover from) bad CG related issues.
Right at the beginning of this thread, the first guy suffered from a classic "tuck under", this is caused all to often by a CG that is REAR of the correct position - hence his bringing the CG forward from 40 to 35mm is not a bad one! Flying wings need very little elevator movement - often up or down of 2-3mm is ample - start with more available on dual rates so you can switch down if you have too much.
Test glides are good, but often they don't get the model close to the flying speed where you will really notice CG issues.
Best test for CG on a wing, get the model up and flying off the slope, get some height (if you can) then put the model into a dive (gradual at first) to pick up some speed - watch for tuck under, this will be an indicator of Rearward CG - land and correct with a small external weight taped on to the body - try again until the model dives straight. If the model pulls out of the dive quickly with speed, there is too much nose weight - land, add some weight behind the CG and don't forget to take out a click or two of the reflex in the elevator surfaces.
For reflex in the ailerons, I doubt you would need more than a mm of up, the German guys' reflex in the video looks excessive - could possibly be to counter for a downward thrust angle maybe? Good luck, would like to see how you get on, I too have watched and followed Marskes designs for some time...

Jun 27, 2012, 03:31 AM
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Kia ora Roger,
stalled mine into a tree and so its been put away for a rainy day rebuild.
Had it going OK with a 20mm COG, 7mm reflex on the elevator and neutral thrust line.
Enjoyed the challenge of getting it sorted out. It certainly was a different profile in the sky but to be honest I have other "convential" gliders that fly much better, in my opinion.
If you are ever coming to the Gold Coast to warm up drop us a line.
Do you fly out at Raglan.
Jul 12, 2012, 06:27 PM
get high
Hey guys, got a white one coming and I will be using it for fpv most of the time. What size batteries are you guys using? Cant wait to see it in person.
Jul 15, 2012, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by BLOWZILLA
Hey guys, got a white one coming and I will be using it for fpv most of the time. What size batteries are you guys using? Cant wait to see it in person.
2200 3 cell for my past endeavours
Oct 06, 2012, 10:23 PM
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A few days ago, I found that decided that the Pioneer would not be the FPV vehicle they envisioned so were clearing them out. The white ARF is $100 and the white kit is $48. Bingo! order placed and have UPS notification of delivery this Monday.
Something struck me as familiar when I saw it for the first time. I began learning how to slope fly in the '70s with a Gryphon flying wing. There were very few RCers on Mt Baldy near Michigan City, Indiana, but there was a small group of new hang gliders. We learned it was mutually beneficial to co-exist to find the best lift.
Jim Marske lived there and flew both. We are the same age and flying wings created our bond. He flew RC slope so masterfully that the birds envyed his planes! I was so fortunate that he passed on to me instructions and actual flying condition techniques. He also showed me his shop where he was starting to make and sell full scale flying wing kits.
All this ended I believe in the'80s when Jim received a substancial offer for his home and property and it was turned into a big strip mall. Marske left the state. I lost a wonderful flying companion. Whenever someone gives me a compliment for finding slope lift, I remember and silently thank the opportunity to know Jim Marske.
Oct 07, 2012, 01:26 AM
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Jim Marske

Thanks for posting Jim.
Real interesting to learn of Jims involvement with RC Slope soaring.
Read all the previous posts on COG, reflex, and thrust line...
Good luck.
I did get mine flying OK in the end but as I commented earlier it was more of the
challenge than anything long term, I find that my "convential" gliders fly better and are more forgiving.
Oct 08, 2012, 01:35 PM
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I graduated from Embry-Riddlle aero university, Florida, in '59. With computers, everything has changed. An airplane is still a compromise of parts and forces, but now computers and sensors keep even the un-flyable designs in the air.
Yes, there is a distinct difference between designs with tails (front or rear located) and flying wings (withor without vertical fins). Every so many years I get drawn back to the pure simplicity of the Wing. I will post my setups and nessecary modifications needed to get my Pioneer flying to my satisfaction.
Jim Marske told me a couple stories about the full size Pioneer (as best remembered from those years back when...);
* A conventional glider and the Wing happened to meet while soaring out west and a friendly race ensued. They passed through a strong invisable updraft and the conventional glider quit. What happened was that the Wing was kicked up in a horizontal attitude which just gave the pilot a brief hard push down in the seat. However, the conventional glider first pitched up and then pitched down as the wing and then tail entered the updraft. The up, down and pitching movements threw the pilot around too much to continue.
*... A wing was returning to the field after a pleasant flight when a soda can was dropped and became lodged in the elevator linkage. It acted as a ratchet permitting the plane to nose down but not come back up. Guys at the field saw the Wing diving down to a impact beyond the field. Meanwhile, in desperation, the pilot pulled with enough force to crush the can and the Wing zoomed up but would have hit the ground except for the big drainage ditch along side the road. He got enough altitude to make a normal landing at the field. The guys were now at the "crash site" but couldn't find anything. The pilot later said that a conventional glider would have caught it's tail on the ditch and resulted in a crash.

May your landings be where intended....
Oct 09, 2012, 01:19 PM
Registered User
Started work on the Pioneer;
* The motor tests perfect balance with power and no prop...vibration free.
* The 4 mounting screws to the firewall are a couple turns loose.
* The end of the fuselage needs slight trimming for the tail to fit fully in place.
* Cheap packing tape easily removes the the splotchy stuff they put on as trim.
* Check the wood frame and add CA to any gaps
* Prop checks with perfect balance.
* Undecided about adding a air outlet hole for cooling.
* Plastic canopy is poorly cut and I plan to trim it evenly.
Oct 11, 2012, 01:03 PM
Registered User
Current status;
* All the hinge lines are too stiff. I used a small rat tail file lightly and now the surfaces move easily and will droop somewhat on their own weight like they should. If you cut through the web, patch with a small piece of Blenderm hinge tape.
* This is a beautiful airfoil. It has reflex and the proper leading edge shape. I did go over the edges to remove the slight mold flashing.
* I reinforced with tape like I do on all my foamies; 1st sand flush the bottom piece that wasn't glued in flush, then wipe down everything with 91% alcohol. I use a single strip of Scotch 3M Extreme packaging tape on the wing bottom. I use the high strength 3M clear packaging tape on the leading edge. Mark a light quide line on the top to start the LE tape and fold 1/2 over to the bottom. Use a flat table to keep the wing straight. Finally, use a covering iron set at 212 degrees F (100C) to slightly shrink and fuse the tape to the foam.
* I re-routed the 3 motor wires to under the wood frame work.
To be continued......

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