Originally Posted by winterstick

I haven't followed all the details of your arrangement with RCRCM, but I though I had read that you had given them the designs for no compensation. If this is not the case, you should let everybody know what the nature of your relationship was with RCRCM. Otherwise there's not much legal or moral ground for claiming IP infringement if it was given freely.

RCRCM may be truly bad guys for various reasons, but the issue of whether they infringed on your IP is what matters in everybody's determination of whether to buy their product.

For the record, when your Aresti is available, I'll buy one as well.

1. I was supposed to be paid (not much actually) for the copyrights for my designs - it never happened, but frankly that's the least of my concerns.

2. My drawings -including those for the "Dorado" were promised to be returned - it never happened.

3. When RCRCM thought they had enough from me I was kicked out..the first I knew of which were messages from friends in contact with RCRCM who had been told that I had "unaccountably left for personal reasons." Really?

4. RCRCM producing my designs and making by estimate close to a million US$ overall, oddly, I don't really object to. What I do object to is my honestly made designs being modified, and then produced at low quality.

5. They promised faithfully - swore in fact - never to use any more of my designs after we parted - Now there is (So far) Minivec, "Dorado" abd who knows what else later.

Make no mistake Stick and others, by buying this pirated stuff you are supporting thieves who will eventually take over your very lives. What in your lives now is NOT Chinese made?

Recently I saw an entirely PRC-Chinese made satire on the subject with chinese actors and in the Chinese language:

Basically in the sketch - a student in this case asks his teacher:

"Did the Americans not know that by making themselves so dependent on our economy, they were also making themselves prisoners?"

Teacher answers: "Yes they were told, but they did it anyway - so now they work for us"

Class erupts in clapping and cheering.

This is what they think...

What will be left for your kids?

Cheers,

James.

Originally Posted by garyg4rc

This thing is going to be fun to fly! I'm thinking MKS for servos. The control surfaces are HUGE!!!

Gary

Yahhh now I feel better!

I can see from the pics that this is a very early iteration of Vector IV before the design was fully developed/finished.

In fact RCRCM never had the final design so I can see why this is.

"Dorado" (Flounder) might not be as much fun to fly as it looks, and certainly will not be as good as Vec III.

There is a long list of faults here that were corrected by me on the final version that became "Aresti"

This one has no possibility of VTPR, BTW and also will need to be kept moving very fast in order to do a basic job.

I think it might be similar to "Concordski" - kinda looks the part but does not quite get there.

J

Originally Posted by Hambonetw

1. I was supposed to be paid (not much actually) for the copyrights for my designs - it never happened, but frankly that's the least of my concerns.

2. My drawings -including those for the "Dorado" were promised to be returned - it never happened.

3. When RCRCM thought they had enough from me I was kicked out..the first I knew of which were messages from friends in contact with RCRCM who had been told that I had "unaccountably left for personal reasons." Really?

4. RCRCM producing my designs and making by estimate close to a million US$ overall, oddly, I don't really object to. What I do object to is my honestly made designs being modified, and then produced at low quality.

5. They promised faithfully - swore in fact - never to use any more of my designs after we parted - Now there is (So far) Minivec, "Dorado" abd who knows what else later.

Make no mistake Stick and others, by buying this pirated stuff you are supporting thieves who will eventually take over your very lives. What in your lives now is NOT Chinese made?

Recently I saw an entirely PRC-Chinese made satire on the subject with chinese actors and in the Chinese language:

Basically in the sketch - a student in this case asks his teacher:

"Did the Americans not know that by making themselves so dependent on our economy, they were also making themselves prisoners?"

Teacher answers: "Yes they were told, but they did it anyway - so now they work for us"

Class erupts in clapping and cheering.

This is what they think...

What will be left for your kids?

Cheers,

James.

Right. I'm sure as you've found out that a promise without consideration is not a contract. From a legal perspective you gifted the IP (designs), and a gift is not revocable. Lesson learned not to allow access to your IP without at least a nondisclosure agreement.

Your best (and only) remedy is the open market. Produce the damn airplanes that you're talking about and let the market reward your efforts and talent. I'm impressed enough by the Minivec to be #1 in line for whatever you offer up.

Originally Posted by winterstick

Right. I'm sure as you've found out that a promise without consideration is not a contract. From a legal perspective you gifted the IP (designs), and a gift is not revocable. Lesson learned not to allow access to your IP without at least a nondisclosure agreement.

Your best (and only) remedy is the open market. Produce the damn airplanes that you're talking about and let the market reward your efforts and talent. I'm impressed enough by the Minivec to be #1 in line for whatever you offer up.

You will not be impressed with the performance of the "Flounder" Stick I promise you.

There are 8 SIGNIFICANT problems that were addressed and a number of less important ones.

Its bascially a badly reassigned Vec III but with a host of new bugs.

Oh and I forgot, I have agreements in writing with RCRCM...thier comments?

This is China! Go try to sue us!

JH

James,
I lose a little a little bit of respect and compassion for you every time you thread-bomb somebody's build thread or review of an RCRCM plane. You already have your own threads out there where you can vent your (rightful) anger over getting cheated by RCRCM.

Please James, for once, just let a guy have his thread. Let him post his pictures, thoughts, and experiences. As the OP said above: "No politics for me!! Just want to post my experiences and help my fellow slope brothers on the build. Can't wait to fly it!"

Originally Posted by Hambonetw

You will not be impressed with the performance of the "Flounder" Stick I promise you.

There are 8 SIGNIFICANT problems that were addressed and a number of less important ones.

Its bascially a badly reassigned Vec III but with a host of new bugs.

Oh and I forgot, I have agreements in writing with RCRCM...thier comments?

This is China! Go try to sue us!

JH

To be honest - I think you need to move on and concentrate on producing your new gliders, hopefully you will have learned from your alleged mistakes in your relationship with RCRCM, and not fall into the same trap again.

Also I think its is unfair to say to someone that they have bought something that will not perform and has a host of bugs, making a judgement like that purely from a photograph is unjust, RCRCM might have ironed out those bugs and produced a well harmonized model, whatever people think, the proof of the pudding is in the eating so why not wait until we hear of Gary's Dorado maiden before making judgement. Fueling bad feeling about a company because of personal issues is also un called for. The argument between you and RCRCM is something that should remain between the two of you and not constantly be discussed on these forums.

Surely it is the customers right to make their own mind up on a company based on their dealings with that company the product the service and the price point.

We all feel your pain and your anger James. Your designs were not the first to be copied by the Chinese, and they wont be the last. I hope you can at least take some satisfaction from knowing that people are flying and enjoying airplanes that were created from your designs. I've designed a few airplanes myself, and I always get a big kick out of it when I encounter somebody flying one of my airplanes.

Obviously, RCRCM has no plans to stop producing your designs. I've had a look at the site, and to some extent they are still giving you credit for design and development. At least that is something.

With all due respect to you, and for your strong feelings about this, I would hope that you could find it in yourself to let this go, and to let the guys who are purchasing and flying your designs, to enjoy doing so. These guys love your designs, and they want to fly them!

The original poster of this thread is obviously very thrilled and excited about his purchase. Let him enjoy it, let him fly it, let him tell us about it. If it is poorly constructed, or does not fly well due to RCRCM's design changes, we will soon hear about it.

I very rarely participate in "controversial" threads. I don't like to take sides, and I don't like to add flames to a fire. In this case, I feel bad for you James, and I also feel bad for Gary, who just wants to show off his new pride and joy.
The Dorado is a sweet looking plane, thanks to you James, and for Gary's sake, I hope it flys as good as it looks. Let's see how it goes.

Originally Posted by kpeevyhouse

James,
I lose a little a little bit of respect and compassion for you every time you thread-bomb somebody's build thread or review of an RCRCM plane. You already have your own threads out there where you can vent your (rightful) anger over getting cheated by RCRCM.

Please James, for once, just let a guy have his threised bot to produce) ich it was until nw with Strega and Minivec - both of which they promad. Let him post his pictures, thoughts, and experiences. As the OP said above: "No politics for me!! Just want to post my experiences and help my fellow slope brothers on the build. Can't wait to fly it!"

KP:

If it was once it would be OK, if it was twice which it was until now with the Minivec then the Strega - both of which RCRCM promised not to produce - but now a third time?

What sane persion stands back and nods, beneficially smiling, when his stuff is stolen time and time again by these apparently naughty children?

I'll tell you what kind...the stupid kind. I am that kind.

OK I'll shut up, but I do tell you that this plane is just as I have described it - I know, I designed it.

Caveat Emptor guys.

James

Originally Posted by Hambonetw

KP:
OK I'll shut up, but I do tell you that this plane is just as I have described it - I know, I designed it.

I don't get involved in these things either, but as an outsider (no RCRCM planes, only just started on mouldies) I've watched the various angles being revealed over time.

It seems to me that there is a general awareness of what's been going on, and that RCRCMs success with these planes largely comes from the excellence of the designs that you did. Now that you are no longer involved with them (and I suspect other designers will also be very wary now) then presumably they are stuck with those and can only really go downhill from there.

The best way to get your own back is to produce your designs yourself, fly rings around the RCRCM planes, and over time it will be obvious what they've lost. There is a really strong grapevine about glider performance in all these worldwide forums - if a plane is a dog it will be shown to be a dog and no amount of marketing will be able to hide that. Similarly if a plane is brilliant that will shine out too.

So look forward, not back, and concentrate on getting some really good planes out there so I can start buying them!

James, I'm very sorry for what has happened between you and RCRCM. What else can I say, I love your designs and will continue to fly them!

Gary - I'm looking forward to a full report on the Dorado.

Re the other subject, let's not forget that the world is filled with people who have good ideas. Getting them to market is another thing completely. To do this takes capital and the willingness to risk it. My guess is that manufacturing RC gliders is far from a guaranteed path to prosperity, and therefore the risk is high. RCRCM took that risk. As a result, James is no longer an obscure model airplane designer with some good ideas. He is a respected designer within the RC glider community. In short, he's gained tremendously from his association with RCRCM. What he chooses to do with that reputation is now up to him. Personaly, I hope he puts the victimization monologue to rest and focuses on putting is reputation and skills to positive use.

Originally Posted by Brian Courtice

That plane isn't a dorado...it's a mahi mahi!!

Great pairs Brian,

Mahi-mahi, Dorado, Vector III is OK too, but with so many other options.... not interested in supporting IP theives

Originally Posted by MCH27t

Gary - I'm looking forward to a full report on the Dorado.

Re the other subject, let's not forget that the world is filled with people who have good ideas. Getting them to market is another thing completely. To do this takes capital and the willingness to risk it. My guess is that manufacturing RC gliders is far from a guaranteed path to prosperity, and therefore the risk is high. RCRCM took that risk. As a result, James is no longer an obscure model airplane designer with some good ideas. He is a respected designer within the RC glider community. In short, he's gained tremendously from his association with RCRCM. What he chooses to do with that reputation is now up to him. Personnaly, I hope he puts the vicitimization monologue to rest and focuses on putting is reputation and skills to positive use.

+1
Phil.

Originally Posted by Conwy-Soarer

To be honest - I think you need to move on and concentrate on producing your new gliders, hopefully you will have learned from your alleged mistakes in your relationship with RCRCM, and not fall into the same trap again.

Also I think its is unfair to say to someone that they have bought something that will not perform and has a host of bugs, making a judgement like that purely from a photograph is unjust, RCRCM might have ironed out those bugs and produced a well harmonized model, whatever people think, the proof of the pudding is in the eating so why not wait until we hear of Gary's Dorado maiden before making judgement. Fueling bad feeling about a company because of personal issues is also un called for. The argument between you and RCRCM is something that should remain between the two of you and not constantly be discussed on these forums.

Surely it is the customers right to make their own mind up on a company based on their dealings with that company the product the service and the price point.

++1

tired to read about the bt between the "designer" and a Manufacturer in many treads.

Cheers
Thomas

Yeah all aside its a build thread so let it be ,James design and release new stuff and let them fall on their swords for stealing your old design . Now Back to the OP Photo's, build and performance, quality issues without bias .