Wingsail Catamaran Model - Page 3 - RC Groups
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Aug 05, 2011, 04:21 PM
Registered User
Dick L.'s Avatar
Ernst - I think he was looking for actual dimensions for foot/luff etc. (BTW - you can't read your dimensions easily on the PDF you posted - requires 200% minimum and font used "bleeds" together).

Here are the dimensions I was looking for/referencing......
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Aug 07, 2011, 12:57 PM
Registered User
For camber control someone should checkout the "RDS" system found on r/c sailplanes. All internal connections. There is a bunch of info on RCG or the following link.

http://www.geniebuild.com/g2_rds.html
Aug 09, 2011, 04:04 PM
Dan Elliott

Next Wingsail Project 62" Quill


Here is a rendering of my next Wingsail project. It looks to tall, but it's to scale with the AC45 wings. It will have a servo to adjust wing camber and a stepped mast.
Aug 09, 2011, 09:22 PM
slow & draggy...
Hobiestoke's Avatar
Very nice. Is the jib going to be another solid foil or some kind of film?
Aug 10, 2011, 07:06 AM
Dan Elliott
For now I'm using the Jib off my Thunder Tiger ENTZ model, but I would like to learn how to make my own Jibs and Genikers. I'm also interested in using different materials to skin the Wingsail with, if you have any suggestions let me know.
Aug 10, 2011, 08:09 AM
Kraut
You could use the same material that is used for RC- aircraft wings, its a thin foil that gets ironed on..
I would chek maybe here in the forum with fly-boys.
Aug 10, 2011, 09:59 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schrott
You could use the same material that is used for RC- aircraft wings, its a thin foil that gets ironed on..
I would chek maybe here in the forum with fly-boys.
It's called Monokote. Many people (including myself) use it as decking on boats like the Marblehead, because it keeps the water out, and is extremely light.

It is also very easy to install.. and a Good sugestion to skin the wing with.
Aug 10, 2011, 10:04 PM
Registered User
Ultracoat is much better to work with than Monokote and lasts much longer. Monokote gets very brittle with time.
Aug 11, 2011, 03:30 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcsoar4fun
Ultracoat is much better to work with than Monokote and lasts much longer. Monokote gets very brittle with time.
That seems like a debateable conversation on another topic.

Regardless, Ultracoat, monokote or whatever the cheapbrandkote name is it's something that will be beneficial to his wing mast.
Aug 11, 2011, 10:31 PM
Registered User
Dick L.'s Avatar
Consider the good old days stuff -- tissue with a clear spray coat of Krylon or similar to water "resist". If you are experimenting with design, why spend $$$ when a single $ would work? Look for "tissue" in Wal-Mart or Target or ??? where they sell greeting cards and gift wrap. For fun, skin it with lightweight gift wrap - something with big, colored polka-dots or similar. Will be unique, easy to see, cheap (inexpensive) and once you get the wing dialed in you can always recover with the more expensive stuff.

If you are already into aircraft building and already have the stuff - disregard the above.
Aug 11, 2011, 11:16 PM
Kraut
That is a good idea, in the 70s I used Chinapaper, the thin white stuff used for wraping gifts, wet it down, stretch it an let it dry and than paint it.
glue woulf be water proof wood glue or something similar.
Thin cheep silk stuff works to, the same way.

Since it is an experiment, no need to blow money, till you know that it works.

I would use foame boards, easy to shape and very cheep.
For trail and error I don't think an ounce or a few grams do mater
Aug 12, 2011, 11:28 AM
Guz
Guz
Gutless wonder
Guz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by breakwater
That seems like a debateable conversation on another topic.

Regardless, Ultracoat, monokote or whatever the cheapbrandkote name is it's something that will be beneficial to his wing mast.
Time to open up a can of worms

I came from the aircraft world, then to sailboats. I've done my share of using various iron on films, so I can spout off about such things.

Monokote has changed over the years. It's no longer favored in skinning. The shrink rate is at a higher temp, and the adhesive isn't as strong as it used to be.

Ultracote (or Oracote), is a a much nicer product to work with. One, they have a light line, which weighs less. Two, it's designed to be worked with different temperatures. Meaning that the glue is activated at one temp, then at a higher temp it starts to shrink, as you increase temp it shrinks more (but it will still "blow out" at to high a temp).

This is all very nice, because at the bottom temperature you tack down the film and pull it nice and tight by hand. Working it so you don't have any wrinkles (or minimum of wrinkles). Then go over everything to glue down the skin at all points. Then just bump up the temperature of your iron and go over it to get a nice tight skin. Usually if you've done it right just the one pass of shrinking will be required. If not, bump up the temperature a bit more, and run another pass to take out the finial wrinkles.

The one big requirement is have a good and accurate iron, that doesn't fluctuate it's temperature over a big range. But it's a not to bad of an investment, money wise.

As for "tissue and dope". It's generally heavier than than the iron on films. Smells nasty (but some people really like it). Is time consuming. Currently it is still done by guys doing hyper accurate scale planes. Trying to recreate the old fabric covered planes.

Finally costs: "Tissue and dope" can cost less for the material, but you lose it in time it takes to apply and get it right. Monokote is still the cheapest, but you get what you pay for. Sometimes you just can't get the wrinkles out and you have to peal it off and start over. Ultracote is the most expensive (a dollar or two more than Monokote, per roll), but you make up for it for it's more forgiving and easier to apply (less do overs).
Last edited by Guz; Aug 12, 2011 at 11:36 AM.
Aug 12, 2011, 11:39 AM
slow & draggy...
Hobiestoke's Avatar
You could always use floral mylar, and wink at the girl in the flower dept and get a sheet or 2 for free, very tough. I guess the question is, is the plan to have just a loose film jib or one thats a wing with an interior CF or balsa framed in "wing"?
Aug 12, 2011, 01:13 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by breakwater
That seems like a debateable conversation on another topic.

Regardless, Ultracoat, monokote or whatever the cheapbrandkote name is it's something that will be beneficial to his wing mast.
Actually its an important distinction. An aircraft is mostly subjected to fairly evenly and slowly applied loads.

A wing mast gets much more severe shock loads, from gusts of winds and particularly the inevitable capsize. Something brittle like monokote gets after a few years will lead to a mast full or holes or broken. This would be the same issue with a doped covering.

I have not tried the monokote since the reformulation, so I cannot comment on its longevity.
Aug 12, 2011, 03:53 PM
Useful Idiot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobiestoke
You could always use floral mylar, and wink at the girl in the flower dept and get a sheet or 2 for free, very tough. I guess the question is, is the plan to have just a loose film jib or one thats a wing with an interior CF or balsa framed in "wing"?
The cut edges of the florist film available here tends to tear very easily.


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