My prop is hitting the sound barrier... OR... - RC Groups
Jul 10, 2011, 06:00 PM
Registered User
Discussion

# My prop is hitting the sound barrier... OR...

I recently installed my new 1500kv (Turnigy 2730-1500) motor on my Swift II. I'm using a 7x3.5 prop, GWS nylon, with the standard prop saver.

Anyway at half throttle it's fine. Maybe at 75% throttle there's a bit of noise (above expected noise.) But at 80%+ it's extremely loud!

The 1500kv motor with a 3S battery could be going 18,900 rpm. One rotation in 0.19 seconds. 3.5" radius, so it travels 2 * pi * 3.5 = ~22 inches every 0.19 seconds = 115 inches/second, or a little under 3 metres per second, which is way lower than the speed of sound ~330m/s.

So what's causing the massive increase in sound at high speeds?
 Jul 10, 2011, 09:04 PM We want... Information! Your calculations are wrong (0.19 seconds per revolution eqauls 316rpm) but you are correct that it's not breaking the sound barrier. The reason for the noise is that the prop is fluttering at high rpm. You need to find a way to reduce rpm (run 2S Lipo or lower Kv motor) or use a stronger prop (eg. APC LP07030).
 Jul 10, 2011, 09:57 PM Suspended Account Are you sure it's the prop and not a motor bearing?
Jul 11, 2011, 01:36 AM
Registered User
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott Your calculations are wrong (0.19 seconds per revolution eqauls 316rpm) but you are correct that it's not breaking the sound barrier. The reason for the noise is that the prop is fluttering at high rpm. You need to find a way to reduce rpm (run 2S Lipo or lower Kv motor) or use a stronger prop (eg. APC LP07030).
Oops, never do math when tired.

That's 0.0019 per second or almost 300m/s which is close to sound... however I find it difficult to believe that the prop could reach that speed without destroying itself.

The simplest option for me is just to not use full power, I usually run at half power anyway.
 Jul 11, 2011, 06:40 AM homo ludens modellisticus Smaller diameter 3-blade prop? More ground clearance too Vriendelijke groeten Ron • diy motor tips • Drive Calculator • • diy motor group • Cumulus MFC •
 Jul 11, 2011, 10:53 AM Registered User WARNING!!! Very dangerous, even at half throttle your likely spinning these thin flexible props way beyond their designed capacities! Please look up the max prop speeds for GWS. These props where never designed for these rpms. Serious injuries can occur!! The noise is from the blades flexing, then they explode! Use Apc, Aeronaut Cam Carbon, Graupner speed etc designed for these rpms.Even with these, very carefully check the balance. FWIW Doug B
 Jul 11, 2011, 07:15 PM Jack There are no "nylon GWS props" that I am aware of. I think they are all some unspecified plastic. This page seems to list most or all of them, I'm not sure it is put up by GWS or just someone selling their props: http://www.gwsprops.com/gws_props_main_page.htm And GWS does not publish any RPM limits for the propellers. Based on extensive testing it is generally accepted that the Direct Drive and Hyper Drive props be limited to 90,000 / diameter in inches, the RS (Reduction Series) or slow fly prop should be limited to 45,000 / diameter in inches. You won't find that published or endorsed anywhere but some well respected prop and motor testers agree with the numbers. Jack
Jul 28, 2011, 03:54 AM
I'm All Thumbs
Quote:
 3.5" radius, so it travels 2 * pi * 3.5
I think it's more like 3.5 * 2 * pi or more directly D * pi.
I'll leave the rest to you.
And do watch out for the little pieces your prop turns into at those speeds.
The piece that blinds you can be to small to see with the naked eye.
Skies.
Jay.
 Jul 28, 2011, 04:11 PM We want... Information! Here is a list of GWS props that I have tested. The EP6030 started to flutter at 16k, so I'm guessing the EP7035 should be OK up to 15k. Code: OK flutter flutter Prop rpm rpm rpm*dia ====== ===== ====== ======= EP2508 19650 EP2510 35070 EP3020 22130 EP3030 EP4025 34838 disintegrated at 37000rpm! EP4530 19930 21490 96705 EP5030 19290 EP5043 12660 16891 84455 EP6030 13440 16060 96360 disintegrated at 17000rpm! EP6050 5190 EP7035 12577 EP7060 6678 EP8040 13880 HD8040x3 13280 EP8043 7967 EP8060 6986 HD8060 11250 EP9047 6607 EP9050 11290 HD9050x3 11387 EP9070 5681 6005 54045 EP9070X3 6461 EP1047 4405 EP1060 9937 EP1080 4602 HD1080 8552 EP1080X4 5843 EP1147 4426 EP1170 8618 EP1180 EP1260 HD1260 9493 HD1280
 Jul 28, 2011, 06:46 PM Jack Thanks for post that, Bruce. That is some great info to have, especially in view of the fact that GWS does not publish any recommendations on RPM limits. It is a little intimidating to think about intentionally taking props up to the point of disintegration. I can handle the props coming apart, it is the horrible things that would take place with the motor being that badly out of balance that really intimidate me. Great job! Thanks again! Jack
 Aug 12, 2011, 10:02 AM Registered User I use the same prop and have only had noise once.It was caused by the bell pulling away from the stator. There was too much space between my e-clip and the spacer HK uses behind rear bearing. I used a soldering iron and heated just the very tip of shaft,with prop-saver removed and take out the two allen screws that help lock in the shaft. Heat will melt whatever HK uses as loc-tite on the shaft and you can easily move shaft and get rid of play.
Aug 13, 2011, 12:54 PM
Registered User
Did a search for the Swift II and nothing shows for it. Is the motor on a pylon or front with a spinner? Can you post a picture?
In eaither case, noise is not good.
I have modified my EDF jets with the BVM type air diverter. This gives a substantial increase in rpm and thrust. On the 4th flight of the modified Venom F-18 Hornet, I heard a raspy POP and then silence. Made a good glide and landing. This picture is looking into the inlet at the diverter (white on the right side) and the impeller. The impeller (hub and blades) disinigrated and blew out the exhaust. I exceeded the burst strength of the plastic at that higher rpm.

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