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Old Jul 03, 2011, 08:28 PM
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California to ban toluene and xylene; how do we thin Goop now?


I'm getting ready to start my first foamie plank using the thinned Goop covering method, and had a talk with the pretty paint lady at the local hardware store, and bought their very last quart of toluene to use as Goop thinner on a foam NCFM M60 I'll be starting soon. She said California is banning the use of both toluene and xylene, and that they will no longer be able to stock those solvents; something I wasn't aware of, (they were already sold out of xylene). The replacement for those solvents contain small amounts of those chemicals, but won't be the same. If so, what can we use to thin Goop? Will the replacement solvents work on Goop? Any suggestions or advice would be welcome. Good air,

Sonny
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Old Jul 03, 2011, 08:30 PM
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The bypass is to get a source outside of CA to ground ship it to you. Or go to AZ or something and buy some.
Old Jul 03, 2011, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Xpress.. View Post
The bypass is to get a source outside of CA to ground ship it to you. Or go to AZ or something and buy some.
They had a couple of gallon cans left of toluene, maybe I should go down and grab those and put them on Ebay, (or just keep them for future projects). I'll start searching online for an out-of-state source, thanks for the suggestion.

Sonny
Old Jul 03, 2011, 08:42 PM
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I have some of the replacement solvent, as far as I can tell it works the same...
Old Jul 03, 2011, 09:00 PM
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I have some of the replacement solvent, as far as I can tell it works the same...
Thanks, good to know. What started the whole thing was a slope outing where I was flying a foam wing constructed with strapping tape and covered with colored packing tape. The site was basically a rock pile, and due to the high winds my plane suffered badly when landing on those rocks. One of my club mates showed up with a Moth covered with Goop, and his plane just bounced off the rocks like a rubber ball with no visible damage. I decided I needed to explore the Goop method on my next build so I wouldn't break my plane every time I landed. Thanks for the info!

Sonny
Old Jul 10, 2011, 07:47 PM
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I think I remember that day Sonny, that goop can take a beating!

I am beginning a Moth soon, we'll have to fly our NCF machines when I return in the fall.

What is the name of the 'replacement' solvent to look for?
Old Jul 10, 2011, 09:23 PM
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I think I remember that day Sonny, that goop can take a beating!

I am beginning a Moth soon, we'll have to fly our NCF machines when I return in the fall.

What is the name of the 'replacement' solvent to look for?
Yes, you were there that day. I should have the M60 finished by then, and next time I go to the hardware store I'll get the name of the replacement thinner. I remember it says "contains toluene" on the label, but not exactly what it's called. I was also wanting to look into "New Stuff" laminating film. but not sure where to get that other than Office Depot; ever heard of it?

Sonny
Old Jul 10, 2011, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by sonny1 View Post
Yes, you were there that day. I should have the M60 finished by then, and next time I go to the hardware store I'll get the name of the replacement thinner. I remember it says "contains toluene" on the label, but not exactly what it's called. I was also wanting to look into "New Stuff" laminating film. but not sure where to get that other than Office Depot; ever heard of it?

Sonny
You can get the new stuff here:

http://www.laminatorwarehouse.com/la..._film.shtml#72

Minimum order is 2 rolls, but you won't have trouble selling a roll here on rcg at your cost including shipping. You can probably sell by yards and make some money too.

Adrian
Old Jul 10, 2011, 10:36 PM
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You can get the new stuff here:

http://www.laminatorwarehouse.com/la..._film.shtml#72

Minimum order is 2 rolls, but you won't have trouble selling a roll here on rcg at your cost including shipping. You can probably sell by yards and make some money too.

Adrian
Thanks Adrian, I had found that website, but wasn't sure which laminate to use; now I do! Before the M60 I have a blue foam Floyd semi-kit which I want to bash into a 48" plank, and apparently Goop melts blue foam so I was advised to use "New Stuff" on it instead. If it works as good as people says it does I may use it on the M60 instead of Goop.

Sonny
Old Jul 10, 2011, 10:42 PM
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New Stuff definitely works as good as people say. I am a convert. We are using the 1.7mil and 3mil stuff on our ultralightweight aerobat builds and it is great!

Steve
Old Jul 10, 2011, 10:45 PM
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That's the stuff! There is a whole thread dedicated to "new stuff" here on the slope forum. I got some here in the classifieds the other day. Go ahead and put goop on the m60, it will help a lot in the bounce effect.
Cliff
Old Jul 10, 2011, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by sonny1 View Post
Thanks Adrian, I had found that website, but wasn't sure which laminate to use; now I do! Before the M60 I have a blue foam Floyd semi-kit which I want to bash into a 48" plank, and apparently Goop melts blue foam so I was advised to use "New Stuff" on it instead. If it works as good as people says it does I may use it on the M60 instead of Goop.

Sonny
I've never used the film on the blue foam. I don't know what the melting point of the blue foam is, but it's definitely lower than epp so you may want to test on a scrap to get the right temperature.

New stuff has its pros and cons. It's durable, cheap and easy to use, but it doesn't conform to the curves that well because it doesn't shrink much. You can also goop over the new stuff too.

Adrian
Old Jul 10, 2011, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by surfimp View Post
New Stuff definitely works as good as people say. I am a convert. We are using the 1.7mil and 3mil stuff on our ultralightweight aerobat builds and it is great!

Steve
I've only built medium to heavy planes so only used 5 and 10, but regardless, it works great!!!

Adrian
Old Jul 10, 2011, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by codezilla View Post
I've never used the film on the blue foam. I don't know what the melting point of the blue foam is, but it's definitely lower than epp so you may want to test on a scrap to get the right temperature.

New stuff has its pros and cons. It's durable, cheap and easy to use, but it doesn't conform to the curves that well because it doesn't shrink much. You can also goop over the new stuff too.

Adrian
Blue foam takes low heat from an iron well, and I've used packing tape and Ultracote over it with good results, (I keep the iron on low, around 200 degrees). I think I might go to the local Office Depot and get a small amount of "New Stuff" off their big roll to try before I order 2 rolls to make sure I want to go ahead and use it. I have a bunch of scrap around from various builds, so I have material to experiment with.

Sonny
Old Jul 11, 2011, 01:18 AM
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Remember that not all laminating film is the same. My comments pertain specifically and exclusively to the Premium Clear Gloss CP film here: http://www.laminatorwarehouse.com/la..._film.shtml#72

Adrian is right, it does not go around corners the same as Ultracote and is nowhere near as stretchy as Solartex. But, it is light, it is incredibly stiff, and it is very pleasant to work with. Plus it's very inexpensive, to boot! I have pretty terrible finishing skills and no matter what I cover with, there will be imperfections. I get about as good a result with the laminating film as I do with anything else, or maybe the clear just hides the wrinkles and edges better.

I do find the edges will pull up, I believe thinned Goop on top of the New Stuff in "high traffic" areas will help with that. I'm trying to eliminate Goop and other solvents from my build inventory, so I may try sealing the edges with white Gorilla Glue and see how that goes. Or I may just put some electrical tape on - that works good for abrasion resistance.

Steve


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