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Oct 12, 2011, 11:33 AM
or GPS, F, J, K, or even TD
FLY F3B's Avatar
Anything will fly off Torrey! The only way I would fly it off of C'bad would be in perfect conditions. Not too much wind, and not too little. Need to be able to catch it every time. Yeah, so C'bad site for maiden, not likely for this glider.

Encinitas field Friday at Lunch for first hand toss.

Mike
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Oct 12, 2011, 12:10 PM
RIP MC
fnnwizard's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by danfitz
Mike, we prefer spreadsheets and graphs on those numbers.
Hey now, Mike don't need no stinking spreadsheets nor graphs. It's more for flying hacks like me .
His TLAR method is better than most of us' TLAR method for sure. But thankfully Precision settings are given scientifically so less TLAR is good in this sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Jolly
Mike wait til you get the smaller stab built for it.....
Larry, it's already got tiny stabs. Look at the tail volume = .33 . Compare that to typical F3j Planes => .45

I love it when the manufacturers give data and settings .
Oct 12, 2011, 01:46 PM
or GPS, F, J, K, or even TD
FLY F3B's Avatar
Yep, gotta love the design team and Samba putting all the effort into showing what settings the glider is theoretically supposed to use. Its like TLAR wearing really clear maginifying glasses

M
Oct 12, 2011, 02:39 PM
Detail Freak
target's Avatar
Mike-

Did you check to see how your TLAR stacked up to the Samba recommendations?
I doubt that your glasses need calibration, but you never know!

R,
Target
Oct 12, 2011, 03:20 PM
or GPS, F, J, K, or even TD
FLY F3B's Avatar
T,

Thats what I mean by using the clear magnifiers... Looking at the settings with the knowledge of what the designers are suggesting in this case. Mr. Rodax sent me a note with some of his early settings which are of course right in line with the spec sheet on the Samba site, but I have not put any sort of measuring device on the surfaces. So, I lined the glider up in my sights, adjusted the surfaces to more or less those specs as posted above, and compared that to what I am used to seeing. That looks about right for a good place to start. While testing I will likely go extreme here and there to see just what is noticable performance wise with some things like reflex, thermal camber, and of course launch camber. I will be playing around with CG a bit too, but that is a pretty easy one for me to get right (I mean to get it the way I like it to ballance)...

I am looking forward to using slightly different CG's in relation to speed,distance and duration. Main difference here would be a more aft CG for speed mainly.

Mike
Oct 12, 2011, 03:50 PM
Detail Freak
target's Avatar
Sounds good.
I'm looking forward to hearing your findings.

R,
Target
Oct 12, 2011, 06:47 PM
registered user
More pics please. . Very sexy machine indeed
Oct 12, 2011, 08:19 PM
Team USA F3F Member
ttraver's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLY F3B
T,

Thats what I mean by using the clear magnifiers... Looking at the settings with the knowledge of what the designers are suggesting in this case. Mr. Rodax sent me a note with some of his early settings which are of course right in line with the spec sheet on the Samba site, but I have not put any sort of measuring device on the surfaces. So, I lined the glider up in my sights, adjusted the surfaces to more or less those specs as posted above, and compared that to what I am used to seeing. That looks about right for a good place to start. While testing I will likely go extreme here and there to see just what is noticable performance wise with some things like reflex, thermal camber, and of course launch camber. I will be playing around with CG a bit too, but that is a pretty easy one for me to get right (I mean to get it the way I like it to ballance)...

I am looking forward to using slightly different CG's in relation to speed,distance and duration. Main difference here would be a more aft CG for speed mainly.

Mike
So Mike,

How would you then change the CG for those different tasks? just by adding or taking away a little weight in between tasks?

Wish I was here this weekend, or I would bring my winch and go with you wherever you decided to maiden it...

I still want to see about trying out the field next to us as a place to play with our toys. Because of the proximity to the beach, it may be smooth enough to work on launch setups...

can't wait to see it fly...

t
Oct 12, 2011, 10:39 PM
or GPS, F, J, K, or even TD
FLY F3B's Avatar
Ballast distribution only. So, its really just a matter of loading it up and measuring the effect. Of course some predictions can be made based on where the ballast goes once the CG is set whether one is moving it forward or rearward, but the question is how much.

So that is the plan...

More later, maybe even more pics tomorrow!

Mike
Oct 13, 2011, 12:13 AM
Team JR Air
tewatson's Avatar
Two less slugs in front of the CG and two more behind oughta move it back nicely...

Tom
Oct 13, 2011, 02:46 AM
Registered User

Ballast & C.G.


For my pre production F3B version I am using ballast according to the table attached. The C.G. is measured in mm from the leading edge at the wing root.

Benjamin
Oct 13, 2011, 03:09 AM
Registered User
prondel's Avatar
Hi Benjamin,

Thanks for this ballast table !
I have a quick question: I see in the table that you mentioned up to 4 slugs in the front joiner compartiment and 4 in the rear joiner compartiment.

Does that mean that you cut the brass ballast slug in two pieces ?

Same question also for the wing ballast compartiment where you mentioned 10 slugs.

All the best,

Pierre
Oct 13, 2011, 06:41 AM
Registered User
Larry Jolly's Avatar
Benjamin,
My very best greetings to you, nice to see you here. Larry
Oct 13, 2011, 08:40 AM
Registered User
prondel's Avatar
Benjamin,

Reading carefully your table, I deduced that the Area is 59.3 dm2 and that to go to 75g/dm2 total weight would be 4.22 kg.
But in the white paper published on Samba Model website it is written:

Practical experience has shown that high wing loading helps to maximize performance in strong conditions, both in F3F and F3B speed task. Therefore the FAI wing loading limit of 75g/dm^2 and the maximum takeoff weight of 5kg call for less wing area. In the final configuration of the Pike precision the FAI wing loading limit is reached at 4.889kg. The wing is designed to take ~2kg of (non toxic and relatively inexpensive) brass ballast without unwanted changes in C.G.

My guess is that the 59.3dm2 is the wing Area, not the FAI Area that includes the tailplane projection ?

Am I correct ?

Thanks in advance,

Regards,

Pierre
Last edited by prondel; Oct 13, 2011 at 03:21 PM.
Oct 13, 2011, 10:00 AM
or GPS, F, J, K, or even TD
FLY F3B's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjaminr
For my pre production F3B version I am using ballast according to the table attached. The C.G. is measured in mm from the leading edge at the wing root.

Benjamin
Awesome Benjamin, thank you for that.

Mike


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