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Jul 12, 2012, 11:17 AM
Sticks, Tissue & old Diesels
brokenenglish's Avatar
George, that's exactly why I built my current Ajax, except that my first attempt was a Playboy, with a propeller shaped wing glued to the fuselage.
The Playboy is now another kit that I've picked up on eBay, "with a few bits missing", so it'll get built one day, like the Slicker!
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Jul 12, 2012, 11:17 AM
Registered User
Froglube's Avatar
Ah, well, perhaps i better make another motor and braid it properly (or get a adult to help me as they say on kids shows). I'm still tempted to give the pigtail a go but on something more expendable than one I have just finished. Theres a Westwings Jade which has solid sheet sides thats mainly occupying space.

Thanks for the info Sundancer, I will try and get my head around it as I do so hate drooping rubber and the poor glides you then get. Construction for aeromodellers is a book I have been looking for for a while. The nearest I've got is the chap who runs the model shop in Oxford let me take his prized copy og the MAP Aeromodeller pocket data book to the newsageants on the same road and photocopy it all. I've a few modern books but I realy like the style of the earlier ones.

To get around the covering the handles in lube problem (using the top of the banister leading up into my shed was a bad idea...) I have drilled peg holes into the 1/2 inch square rim I put on the false top I made for my work bench. So everytime I have to make a different size loop I drill in another hole and write next to it what distance it is from the furthest peg hole. And after a lot of messing about trying to hold bits of wire as I solder or bend them for undercarts there now some leetle 20 and 18 gauge holes which match the distance bewteen the tubes on various models. You'd be horrified how long it took me to come up with that.

When I remake the Ajax as well as using the correct wood (praises unto those who sell it by weight/density/cut) I will be adding more spars as well. Out board wasn't as pretty for the dowels but I'm glad I did as it gave me a bit of wriggle room for moving the wing slightly back and forth for trimming. I realy need to get a lot more field time as I am quite poor at setting up the wings, thrust lines et al for getting the best flights.

Yup I'm in the UK, East Lancashire up in the Penines. We moved here without much thought for flying conditions (well none) and the same year they built a wind farm which we can just see if I go to the front gate. Not a good place for the small lightweight FF planes I like.

Thanks for all the input!


Last edited by Froglube; Jul 12, 2012 at 11:31 AM. Reason: can't spell
Jul 12, 2012, 01:14 PM
Sic itur ad Astra
sparks59's Avatar
Originally Posted by Sundancer
Ah well Jim, the penalty of being a late starter. I made just as appalling a mess of my first kit - the ubiquitous Achilles -...... I really must build another Achilles one day if only to prove that I have learned something over the last 64 years!
My first rubber powered kit, aside from a lot of sleek streaks and chuck gliders, was also an Achilles. It flew reasonably well, although I had no clue about the rubber motor and can recall being very confused about how much rubber was supposed to be used to make the motor. Eventually the fuse finished up about 2" long after an over zealous windind.
Jul 12, 2012, 02:20 PM
Registered User
> the penalty of being a late starter.

I 'started' at about 9 years of age with crude attempts at solid gliders, one of which - from a prewar sort of tabloid with photos of biplane airliners, etc. - 'flew' about 100 yards down a hill steeper than its glide path. Left me open-mouthed and remember that flight to this day - hooked! V dhedral, twin fins .. have never traced that publication since.

As for that first doomed rubber model - I/ve always had a suspicion I drilled the prop side to side too.....

The replica....
Aug 10, 2012, 03:26 AM
Registered User
Froglube's Avatar
Finally got to test fly the Veronite no. 4., was out at 7.30 towing a camera armed and yawning 11 year old and got in 6 flights before hunger and the weight of dew sagging the thinly doped tissue drove us inside. No wind, overcast but not cool.

This is where my inexperiance really shows! The test glides showed it pulled hard to the left and this was cured with altering the fins position in relation to the planes axis. I left in some turn under no power. A tendancy to fly into the ground was helped by a shim on the nose block but I will have to alter the hook for the rubber band that keeps the tail on at the rear as the band came off a few times causing acrobatics.

I will sort that, see to any warps that form on drying it out and get some more flights in. Will also read up o flight trimming again

Will be happier when i am doing the No. 3 as I'm used to high wings!



PS Think I will put more wash out in when I steam the wings to cure the enevitable warps on drying out, I may have been too subtle first time around.

Originally Posted by Froglube
Finished the Veronite No 4 just now, a Jack Leadbetter design for the Model Aircraft Stores (Bournemouth) about 1939, 21 3/4 inch span. Herself has braided me 3 x 16" loops of 1/8 rubber which I will fit when the weathers better and will then balence and trim it. I pretty much stuck to the plan except for the plastic wheels and prop and used bamboo pegs rather than wire hooks for main wing elastic band attachement points

Does anyone know if MAS had a logo I can make a decal of as the tail looks rather bare?


Last edited by Froglube; Aug 10, 2012 at 03:42 AM.
Aug 10, 2012, 01:50 PM
Sic itur ad Astra
sparks59's Avatar
Congrats on the successful maiden Tom!
Sep 15, 2012, 01:22 PM
Master of the 1 point landing
ckimmey's Avatar
Comet JN4 Jenny.
23" span.
Rubber to electric 4-channel r/c conversion.
She is still naked, but will have a set of "clothes" soon.
You can see the build thread in the micro/indoor forum.

Next project: 25" Comet Piper Cub r/c conversion.

Thanks to all for the plans.
Sep 15, 2012, 09:19 PM
Registered User
Did you have a tiny bellcrank in the Jenny for the ailerons? I can't quite make that out in the photo of it uncovered.
Sep 15, 2012, 11:07 PM
Master of the 1 point landing
ckimmey's Avatar
Originally Posted by jonquinn
Did you have a tiny bellcrank in the Jenny for the ailerons? I can't quite make that out in the photo of it uncovered.
I did make 2 tiny bellcranks for the ailerons. They are 1/32 plywood with a 3/32 tube slid onto a 1/16 tube for a hinge. 1:1 ratio on the throw at 90 degrees.
Sep 19, 2012, 05:21 PM

Topsy from Graupner

Remake of the Topsy from Graupner ( Germany).
I made an Cad Model and then milled all parts.
More pictures here:


Wingspan 32,3"
Motor: 0,5ccm Schlosser Diesel
Sep 19, 2012, 10:15 PM
Registered User
boingk's Avatar
Nice work mate, very sharp indeed.

Where did you get your diesel engine? I'm after one myself but can't seem to find any for the life of me.

Cheers - boingk
Sep 19, 2012, 11:11 PM
Registered User
Hi Boingk,

Diesel engines are easily obtained in Australia. Just go here:

That is the home page of PELAERO PRODUCTS. Great site for all your Free Flight supplies and a very experienced friendly aero modeller guy running it. Prices are good with no need to buy overseas.

At the bottom of that Home page there is a link to DAVID OWEN and his price list for some very nice PAW, LETM and MP JET diesel engines. I own a number of PAW’s and purchased one of the JET MP engines from David a few years back. It is a little gem with very easy starting and runs beautifully. Just what you need for free flight.

David also stocks spares and accessories for the engines he sells.

It is much cheaper to mix your own fuel. You should be able to find a source for the Either in Sydney, I did in Tasmania, and also buy your Caster Oil in bulk. Kerosene is easily available from hardware stores etc. Add approximately 2% of a diesel fuel improver sold for the “Big Rigs” from one the many Automotive outlets and your set to go.


Last edited by algy2; Sep 20, 2012 at 03:20 AM.
Sep 20, 2012, 02:17 AM
Registered User
boingk's Avatar
Thanks for that Algy, very much appreciated!

- boingk
Sep 20, 2012, 09:28 PM
Registered User
Teals1's Avatar

Diesel fuel

Hi Algy2
Interested to know more about the 'diesel fuel improver' you talk of in your post. The Iso-propylnitrate is near impossible to get here. What is the actual name of the improver you use? I did read somewhere that nitro will do the same job. Do you know anything about that?
Sep 20, 2012, 11:17 PM
Registered User
Hi Allen,

I can give you the name of a Diesel fuel additive that works great for me but want to give a disclaimer that I am just a sport flyer and do not want to enter into any discussion on model diesel fuels and additives.

It is a subject that a lot of people have their own pet theories on and they can get very pedantic, tedious and boring. Ho hum!

First up I found that all model diesel engines benefit from an ignition improver with easier starting, smoother running and the use of less compression. In my particular experience PAW diesels seem to actually love it.

The one I use is WYNN’S DIESEL ANTI-KNOCK but not sure if that is still on the market because I bought quite a few bottles of it years ago and still have some left. It boosts your cetane rating 4-7 numbers

The other commercial diesel additive is AMSOIL CETANE BOOST an American product which is available around the world. About AU$20.00 for a 16 fluid oz (473ml) bottle here. Look up your local Amsoil dealer. Modellers have had good results with that.

Another good brand name is BARDEL but have not tried it. There may be other brands as well. What you are looking for is a boost in cetane rating and that information is usually on the label.

Add it at 1.5% to 2% to the volume of fuel you are mixing. Adding a higher percentage does no good and might do harm.

As you said IPN used to be the additive to use but seems to be unobtainable now. I have had no experience with the use of nitro.

Hope this helps.


Last edited by algy2; Sep 21, 2012 at 04:22 AM.

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