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Aug 17, 2019, 09:00 AM
Gliders ain't drones!
Zenmaniac's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenmaniac
I hope you've cautioned him that it might not fly as well as the Ahi! At least that's the consensus of the guys around here, on our little Wisconsin slopes. You've flown both, what's your feeling?

-= Dave
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfimp
Great question and one I've obviously given a lot of thought to, being the designer of Le Fish, as well as a huge fan of the Ahi!

.... not quoted in full, for obvious reasons...

Steve,
who loved every minute of the past six or so hours he spent typing this up
Ummm... maybe I should have asked Dawson.

Wow, what a great treatise and insight on these two planes, Steve. Lots of information to ruminate about.

I guess for us Midwest flatlanders, trying to fly aerobatics on 70 foot, 50-degree slopes, where the ability to penetrate is key to being able to fly at all is where the low drag Ahi gives us the ability to do what we could only dream doing here with the Le Fish. You touched on that with the “polyvalent” nature of the Ahi. And tail-drags are generally out-of-the-question, as a number of hills are covered with brush and trees.

Let me buy you a boot at the Essen Haus the next time you're in Madison, to pay you back for your 6 hours! But it better be fast --- developers are working hard to get that street!

All the best,

-= Dave
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Aug 17, 2019, 11:40 AM
VTPR & Slope Aerobatics
surfimp's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenmaniac
I guess for us Midwest flatlanders, trying to fly aerobatics on 70 foot, 50-degree slopes, where the ability to penetrate is key to being able to fly at all is where the low drag Ahi gives us the ability to do what we could only dream doing here with the Le Fish. You touched on that with the “polyvalent” nature of the Ahi. And tail-drags are generally out-of-the-question, as a number of hills are covered with brush and trees.
Yep, you're not wrong! Except maybe about the dragging the fin part... there's always a way

The fact that Le Fish flies even as well as it does, considering how little I knew about aerobatics gliders in a practical sense when designing it, is just plain dumb luck. I'm pretty sure I made that clear in my write-up, but let me just put it out there explicitly just to be sure.

The tall fuselage is something that's been commented about a lot, and as noted, I just basically YOLOed it after spending a lot of time looking at fish-shaped French designs. I compare it now against other designs, and both it and the comparatively enormous tail surfaces really stand out. For example, the height of the Le Fish canopy area of the fuselage is as tall as corresponding parts of the Excalibur and Quartz... both which are 2.5m gliders But achieving sustainable knife edge flight was a thing I was really interested in at the time, and I figured I had to start somewhere. Since then, I've learned that you don't need a super huge fuselage to fly great knife edge, so long as you have speed... the Ahi is a good example of this. On the flipside, at a cliff site, that huge fuselage and tail surface lets you hang the plane on the side, which gives the pilot a sort of neat tempo change opportunity, and is something you'll see in a lot of my videos. So like always, these things can be both a blessing and a curse, and it really depends on the application.

And comparing the size and volume of the tail surfaces versus the Ahi is really telling, as well. That was the thing that jumped out at me most about the plane, it's like that Hedley Lamarr line from the end of Blazing Saddles, where he's staring at Douglas Fairbank's footprints in the panel at the Chinese Theater, exclaiming "How did he do such fanastic stunts with such little feet?!" It would be really interested to pare down both the Le Fish fuselage height and the tail volume and see how differently the plane would fly. If it penetrated better, while still retaining the ability to make clean point rolls and some degree of knife edge flight, then that would be an improvement, in my view.

So anyways, if I ever design another aerobatics glider from scratch, or redesign the Le Fish, you can bet I'll be trying to incorporate the many, many things I've learned about flying a lot of these things over the past decade plus.

One thing I somehow failed to include in that writeup, but which I hope to also make explicit: despite my obvious affection for the Le Fish, I believe I have firmly demonstrated that I'm "platform neutral" when it comes to what I'll fly. I've made a bunch of videos with the Buzz, and of course the Ahi, and any other aerobatics glider I can get my hands on, because at the end of the day, it's only the flying that matters, not the airframes.

Honestly, my greatest point of pride about Le Fish is the role it's played in helping grow the interest and popularity of slope aerobatics in the US and abroad. Michael has credited me and my plane as one of the sources of inspiration for the Ahi, and I'll be damned if that isn't just about the highest praise I can think of, on a personal level.

But, at the end of the day: it's not about me, and it's not about Le Fish. It's about the sport and hobby of slope aerobatics, and sharing that with other people.

Thanks for listening, I'll go work on an actual airplane now

Steve
Last edited by surfimp; Aug 17, 2019 at 11:48 AM.
Aug 18, 2019, 01:09 PM
Epic Win or Epic Fail!
awood12345's Avatar
Anyone know how I can build a le fish or buzz clone in the UK. I really want one but I cant find epp anywhere.
Aug 18, 2019, 01:11 PM
Epic Win or Epic Fail!
awood12345's Avatar
Sorry duplicate post
Aug 19, 2019, 05:12 PM
Warbirds Lover
Dreamcatcher's Avatar
Not in the UK but if the Brexit don't block the exchange with the continental europe :

https://shop-rc.causemann.de/LeFish-...mp-Steve-Lange

There is also a 120mm wing span version (48" and 60")
Cheers
Aug 19, 2019, 05:36 PM
Registered User
Hi, designer of the buzz and like thirty other similar planes here -

Feel free to scratch build any of my designs. I prefer they aren't resold though, unless it's through a good guy like Jack from LEG or Michael at Dream Flight.

I only make planes for folks who really want them and show some good flying skills these days. No kits.

The buzz is pretty old. I suggest something more like this for a good time:
Last edited by RideTheWind; Aug 19, 2019 at 05:42 PM.
Aug 21, 2019, 02:31 AM
Epic Win or Epic Fail!
awood12345's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher
Not in the UK but if the Brexit don't block the exchange with the continental europe :

https://shop-rc.causemann.de/LeFish-...mp-Steve-Lange

There is also a 120mm wing span version (48" and 60")
Cheers
Thanks! I'm ordering two now!
Aug 21, 2019, 06:38 AM
Epic Win or Epic Fail!
awood12345's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RideTheWind
Hi, designer of the buzz and like thirty other similar planes here -

Feel free to scratch build any of my designs. I prefer they aren't resold though, unless it's through a good guy like Jack from LEG or Michael at Dream Flight.

I only make planes for folks who really want them and show some good flying skills these days. No kits.

The buzz is pretty old. I suggest something more like this for a good time:
Are your designs sold in Europe, more specifically the UK? I looked but couldn't find anything. Might be worth speaking to rc.causemann.de they have supplied great service so far plus the price is excellent. I just ordered two 'Le Fish 1500mm'.
Aug 21, 2019, 07:54 PM
MQ-5B Driver
Doug Cronkhite's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RideTheWind
Hi, designer of the buzz and like thirty other similar planes here -

Feel free to scratch build any of my designs. I prefer they aren't resold though, unless it's through a good guy like Jack from LEG or Michael at Dream Flight.

I only make planes for folks who really want them and show some good flying skills these days. No kits.

The buzz is pretty old. I suggest something more like this for a good time:
Justin.. I need a Dave's Beach light airplane.. I get home from Afghanistan the end of Sept.. What do you have for me?
Aug 21, 2019, 08:43 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Cronkhite
Justin.. I need a Dave's Beach light airplane.. I get home from Afghanistan the end of Sept.. What do you have for me?
Dang, Afghanistan huh? What's to do over there?

I have a real job these days that takes up a lot of time but I'll probably have something sitting around by then. Any color preferences?

I like to make 60" or bigger so I can use Power HD 1711 servos effectively.
Aug 21, 2019, 09:28 PM
MQ-5B Driver
Doug Cronkhite's Avatar
I fly UAVs here..

No preference on colors. I generally do red, yellow, white, and blue on stuff but I'm open to whatever..
Sep 03, 2019, 05:00 PM
VTPR & Slope Aerobatics
surfimp's Avatar
Thread OP
Anyone have protips to share on removing new stuff laminating film?

I decided to finally do a restoration on the old ultralight Le Fish, and despite literal years of abuse the darn stuff is still sticking like crazy. This is not a problem I expected to have to this degree!

I was able to get most off non-destructively (to the airframe), but wondering if there are any tips for those last really tenacious bits.

Really impressed by how well this build stood up to tremendous abuse!

Steve
Sep 04, 2019, 12:37 AM
Warbirds Lover
Dreamcatcher's Avatar
Hi Steve,
No tips&tricks on that subject in my knowledge (mine often peel off by itself), but i would be very interested by some answers too...

@awood12345 : i'm happy that you found what you was looking for ;-)
For light winds my rc buddies and i enjoy a lot his Fox EPP (1200mm span). It's a really funny glider for small slopes with winds from 15 to 25 km/h. Good aerobatics and can be used for VTPR or similar with a semi scale look of swift s1.

@ Justin : one of these days i will build one of your designs, it's on the "to do list"
Cheers !
Sep 04, 2019, 01:02 AM
Registered User
Brand new snap off blade, don't use a handle, hold the blade with your hand or glue it to a popsicle stick so can sit flush over the foam.

You might have luck using isopropanol to release the hot glue on the back of the film.
Sep 04, 2019, 03:27 AM
Epic Win or Epic Fail!
awood12345's Avatar
I'm working on the build now with a mate, we can't wait to fly them! What is the best way to shape EPP when rounding the fuselage? I tried my Permagrit block but didn't seem to touch the stuff.


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