2 Meter Horten XII - Page 4 - RC Groups
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Aug 01, 2011, 12:42 AM
Crazy Cessna Owner
Robbie d's Avatar
Bravo, looking good
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Aug 01, 2011, 11:06 AM
Registered User

Horten XIIIa


If there is a build for a Horten XIIIa pure glider i'm interested ina short kit.
Aug 01, 2011, 11:25 AM
Designing something...
@Longeze28 - How about a IIIb? Take a look at this thread. The IIIb & IIIe share the same wing panels. The third page in this thread shows a picture of the non-powered center section. You can either PM me or post questions in that thread.

Brian
Aug 01, 2011, 05:00 PM
I'm slow but I'm expensive
Ken Lilja's Avatar

"trafficator"


Has anyone seen any pictures or details on what this looks like? Also, if I get landing gear into this I may also try to install the flaps. I have ordered some 7075-T6 aluminum to goof around with making a drag link for the landing gear. Brian, is there any reason not to make the wing skins one piece? I have some 24" X 48" ply on order.
Ken
Aug 01, 2011, 07:13 PM
Designing something...
@Ken - Other than possibly being more difficult cut and glue, if you want to do a single piece wing skin there is definitely nothing wrong with that.

Brian
Aug 01, 2011, 07:37 PM
internet gadfly
nmasters's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Lilja
Has anyone seen any pictures or details on what this looks like?
Wasn't the "trafficator" that drag bar that they tried on a couple of planes? My books aren't here but I'll get them in a little while and see if I can find a picture

--Norm
Aug 01, 2011, 07:41 PM
I'm slow but I'm expensive
Ken Lilja's Avatar
Norm,
It was one of the drag devices at the tip for yaw control.
Ken

Quote:
Originally Posted by nmasters
Wasn't the "trafficator" that drag bar that they tried on a couple of planes? My books aren't here but I'll get them in a little while and see if I can find a picture

--Norm
Aug 02, 2011, 01:23 AM
Crazy Cessna Owner
Robbie d's Avatar
from the diagrams i've seen, the shape and movement is like Schempp Hirth single blade airbrakes (only smaller and near the tip).
Aug 02, 2011, 02:03 AM
internet gadfly
nmasters's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie d
from the diagrams i've seen, the shape and movement is like Schempp Hirth single blade airbrakes (only smaller and near the tip).
That was their standard drag rudder design. I believe that the trafficator was this horizontal sliding device

--Norm
Aug 02, 2011, 06:53 AM
a wing is enough
Tail Saw's Avatar
Hi Norm,

this type of drag rudder was only used at the Ho VII, but the standard were Schempp Hirth blade airbrake´s, as rob wrote. They were much better than the other types.
I had scale sized rotary airbrakes at my 1:5 Ho IIIe, but the effect was absolutely zero. The Reynolds number at the model prevents an effect.
The only well working drag rudders at model-Horten are Schemph Hirth airbrakes, but my Ho XII dont need such things. I have over 50 hours of flying with my XII and I never missed drag rudders. You will find some videos of my XII at page 1 of this thread...

If you want to control the plane with the landing gear on the ground, the best solution would be to drag the single rear suspension and brake the two front wheels differently. This solution in reverse order was used very successful at the man-carrying PUL 10. A steered tailwheel has often used, but never really been proven in any of the Horten aircraft.
Take a look at the Ho XII landing gear and the ecological alternative engines


Regards,

Uwe.

P.S.: Last weekend the 2 m Ho XII of Peter had its maiden, you can find some pictures of our very nice flying wing meeting there:
http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showt...=1#post2453949
Last edited by Tail Saw; Aug 02, 2011 at 07:15 AM.
Aug 02, 2011, 11:07 AM
I'm slow but I'm expensive
Ken Lilja's Avatar
Just before going to bed I read a description of the "trafficator" and I thought that they must be kidding! This picture confirms what what was described. It actually looks more sensible now that I see the picture. The extension creates drag and the surface protrudes higher above and below the airfoil as it extends. And no, I don't expect to install it. Installing retracts dose not look to difficult. I will need to eliminate any CG change with retraction. I rather need the landing gear as my sailplane club would not let me fly it as it would be fast and somewhat noisy. The other club I belong to is very active and has 4 or 5 on the flightline at any given time. They would not be fond of me having to cross the runway to use a bungee.
Ken

Quote:
Originally Posted by nmasters
That was their standard drag rudder design. I believe that the trafficator was this horizontal sliding device

--Norm
Aug 02, 2011, 06:08 PM
I'm slow but I'm expensive
Ken Lilja's Avatar

"trafficator"


The name "trafficator" started me thinking about the mechanical turn signals on old cars.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trafficators
Ken
Aug 02, 2011, 11:07 PM
Crazy Cessna Owner
Robbie d's Avatar
@ Tail Saw. You guys really know how to build wings over there. The tiny Ho VII was very cool.
Aug 03, 2011, 01:42 AM
internet gadfly
nmasters's Avatar
Hi, Uwe--
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tail Saw
This type of drag rudder was only used at the Ho VII, but the standard were Schempp Hirth blade airbrake´s
That's what I thought but some books about the Hortens over here are as much fantasy as history. All the pictures I've seen of this tip dragger are of H VII wings but one or two of the books imply that it was used more than once.

Quote:
The only well working drag rudders at model-Horten are Schemph Hirth airbrakes,
You're probably right about that but I've always thought that a smooth cylinder in front of the spar might be worth looking into. That sliding tongue or trafficator would present a different cross section to the air as AoA changed so it's drag would change during maneuvers. A cylinder has about 9X as much drag as an airfoil and its drag wouldn't change with AoA

Quote:
but my Ho XII dont need such things. I have over 50 hours of flying with my XII and I never missed drag rudders. You will find some videos of my XII at page 1 of this thread...
I've watched the videos several times. It's a great model.


Quote:
Take a look at the Ho XII landing gear and the ecological alternative engines
The picture with hoof power pulling an airplane is a great illustration of how fast things changed in the 20th century. I've seen many such pictures from all over the world. A few years ago I visited the Boeing museum. The machine shop was powered by a water wheel


Quote:
Last weekend the 2 m Ho XII of Peter had its maiden, you can find some pictures of our very nice flying wing meeting there:
http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showt...=1#post2453949
Beautiful flying site, beautiful airplanes, beautiful barbecue

--Norm
Aug 03, 2011, 11:13 AM
Designing something...
Uwe...yes great pictures.


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