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View Poll Results: Do you think Global Warming is caused by Mankinds burning of fossil fuels?
Yes, it is caused by fossil fuels 266 35.47%
Not sure 89 11.87%
No it is not cause by fossil fuels 395 52.67%
Voters: 750. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Jul 19, 2012, 05:00 PM
madsci_guy is online now
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Jim, engineers do original research all the time, not just, "The second kind of science to design and construct things which work as advertised", with occasional forays into "Real Science", er... Science Number One.







I'm pretty sure that a patent search would reveal quite a large percent of engineers had submitted them.
Old Jul 19, 2012, 06:20 PM
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Not about climate change, but here is an example of normal or ordinary science where one is working within the framework of well tested theory. It is still original research. Something like the chief engineer at Clarence Cannon Dam telling me the hydropower plant was designed and built using 'standard engineering practice'.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0719132855.htm

It is interesting that ability to recognize recombinations in individual sperm gives resuts very similar to those of much more theoretical population based studies.
Old Jul 19, 2012, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by grumpy42 View Post
if it bites or scratches, it is biology. If it stinks or explodes it's chemistry. If it doesn't work, it's physics. If it works, but no one knows why, it's engineering. And if no one believes you - it is climatology...:d:d:d
:d :d
Last edited by Panoramix; Jul 19, 2012 at 06:50 PM.
Old Jul 19, 2012, 06:49 PM
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Cheese eating monkey.
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Originally Posted by madsci_guy View Post
Jim, engineers do original research all the time, not just, "The second kind of science to design and construct things which work as advertised", with occasional forays into "Real Science", er... Science Number One.

I'm pretty sure that a patent search would reveal quite a large percent of engineers had submitted them.
Research isn't always science, Engineering isn't necessarily about repeating stuff that has been done before but proper science is relatively uncommon, sometimes you need to work out the science into engineering principles but having to do the science is a step beyond that few have to take. I suppose may be the guys who were the first to fly beyond the speed of sound can claim they've done some science but you don't need to be a scientist to patent something, just a bit ingeniuous and patenting stuff IMHO is more of an engineer job than a scientist one.
Old Jul 19, 2012, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by panoramix View Post
research isn't always science,...
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiki
science (from latin scientia, meaning "knowledge") is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe.
qed
Old Jul 19, 2012, 09:59 PM
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http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0719115130.htm

Here are some CO2 numbers for your perusal. Looks to me like we are going to run the what happens to the earth if CO2 concentrations continue to rise experiment.
Old Jul 20, 2012, 03:02 AM
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Like the man said, research isn't always science - research can include historical research, market research, genealogical research and any amount of other forms of non-scientific research.
Old Jul 21, 2012, 01:15 AM
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Christopher Monckton saute’s and dices the usual fallacies, but also calculates the cost-benefits of the Australia Carbon Tax, should it be reproduced on a global scale.

He assumes that not only will the Carbon Tax achieve what Ms Gillard intended (emissions wise), but also that the exaggerated unvalidated climate models of IPCC fame are completely correct. With these cavernous caveats, he estimates it will cost $2,000 trillion to cool the planet by one degree, and that’s the best case scenario.

“…carbon trading in Australia will cost $10.1 bn/year, plus $1.6 bn/year for administration (Wong, 2010, p. 5), plus $1.2 bn/year for renewables and other costs, a total of $13 bn/year, rising at 5%/year, or $130 bn by 2020 at n.p.v., to abate 5% of current emissions, which represent 1.2% of world emissions (derived from Boden et al., 2010ab). Thus the Australian measure, if it succeeded as fully as its promoters intend, would abate 0.06% of global emissions over its 10-year term. CO2 concentration would fall from a business-as-usual 410 to 409.988 ppmv by the end of the term. Forcing abated is 0.0002 W m–2; warming consequently abated is 0.00006 K; mitigation cost-effectiveness, which is the cost of abating 1 K global warming by measures of equivalent cost-effectiveness, is $2,000 tr/K. On the same basis, the cost of abating all projected warming over the ten-year life of the policy is $300 trillion, or $44,000/head, or 58% of global GDP over the period. The cost of mitigation by such measures would exceed the cost of climate-related damage consequent upon inaction by a factor of approximately 50.”
The economics of saving the planet don't even make sense
Old Jul 21, 2012, 01:16 AM
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Old Jul 21, 2012, 06:28 AM
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The practicality of saving the planet does make sense.

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Old Jul 23, 2012, 07:28 PM
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http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...orthern-europe

It seems that the Baltic Sea is the fastest warming ocean type water body. The link doesn't speculate about why this is; an interesting question, to be sure. The thrust of the link is that warming of water bodies is allowing bacterial diseases to move north, to where they are unexpected and, perhaps, ill prepared for.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/201...feed&mobile=nc

This one is about the state of the lobster fishery. Warming is moving the molting earlier in the year. I had never heard of "rag" lobsters, although I have consumed many soft shell crabs. There are a number of other factors affecting the fishery as well, of course.
Last edited by Jim Thomerson; Jul 23, 2012 at 07:54 PM.
Old Jul 29, 2012, 09:34 AM
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It is good someone is throwing money at the problem..............


http://suite101.com/article/bill-gat...dstill-a304743

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Old Jul 29, 2012, 09:47 AM
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Well at least the pestilance is striking the U.S of A more than most at present. What with the Great rivers at there lowest since records began I think they said 17metres in some places. Forest Fires and the Odd bit of flooding, Tornado's outa no where's and unprecidented electrical storms. Oh and lets not forget the over enthusiastic Heat waves now.

Say have they got the Seat of power back on yet or was it just the Pleb's in the Burbs who went without power.

Nah fossil fuels surely can't have anything to do with that....reminds me of a somg. Dream,Dream , Dream............................
Old Jul 29, 2012, 09:49 AM
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http://m.rollingstone.com/?redirurl=...-math-20120719

We are $@*$%ed.
Old Jul 29, 2012, 09:50 AM
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Last edited by Sluf7; Jul 29, 2012 at 09:56 PM.


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