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Aug 27, 2012, 08:00 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_flyer
Thanks Nitro, I was a bit worried at first
Does the thrust really go up to around 65g when in the GP airframe as some have reported in the Sabre thread?
If I cant get 65g out of these units I'll have to scrap the idea of using them in a twin Mig 29 or F15 (unless those airframes are less heavy than I planned for).
But why go with smaller fan units???...This plane was made for 35mm fans and 30mm is a HUGE downgrade percentage wise...(Just think---A 10% smaller size is only 3.5mm...And we're talking larger downgrade than that...)

You will have to neck down the exhaust to get the most out of the 30mm units even on 3S...Too much work for marginal performance in my opinion...I fly my 35mm MiG 15 on 4S for big grins...

Kevin
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Aug 27, 2012, 09:29 PM
Addicted to building...
Freddie B's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Greene
But Fred---The amp #'s don't lie...Amps are amps are amps...It is what it is...Maybe the motor doesn't heat up but the ESC is screaming to PLEASE QUIT!!!...I'm curious to see what the J-Power motor would do with an AEO 40mm fan...

Kevin
Amps are Amps, but remember the old Speed 400 Brushed motors on a 5"x5" Propeller ate about 11-12.5A, on 7 NiCd's or 8 NiMh and was rated at about 55%-65% efficient. They would fly a 1 pound airplane well, at about 60-67mph, but it could be a challange to get them on step (like some EDF's we have all had). That was when we needed 65 watts/lb to just stay in the air, 75 watts/lb to pull loops, and 100/lbs watts was awsome. So these were doing 100+ watts input, and say 60-70 watts out. So where did all the rest go, brushes, heat, wasted energy somewhere, eveywhere.

So I brushless, but when a tiny motor pulls 12 Amps on a 30mm fan, and doesn't put out as much thrust as other fan/motor combos, it seems it must be an effieciency issue? Right?????

But I could see a test of the cool J-Power motor on a 40mm unit, seems like it might just be a pair made in heaven. I would start with 3 cell though! But here is the question, if it's a GWS type rotor, would you go 3 or 6 blades!

Fred
Aug 27, 2012, 09:34 PM
Registered User
Joe 1320's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddie B
But I could see a test of the cool J-Power motor on a 40mm unit, seems like it might just be a pair made in heaven. I would start with 3 cell though! But here is the question, if it's a GWS type rotor, would you go 3 or 6 blades!

Fred
I'm going to test a Jpower motor in a GWS 40mm fan and see what happens. I'll try a 6 blade impeller and a cut down 50mm 3 blade. If it works, it would be a light weight setup for sure. I have a feeling that it would be a 2s setup though. My usual setup is a 5800 kV inrunner on 3s. A 9000 kV motor should spin it pretty well on 2s.

There is also the possibilty of a 30mm fan on 4s too.
Aug 27, 2012, 09:46 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddie B
Amps are Amps, but remember the old Speed 400 Brushed motors on a 5"x5" Propeller ate about 11-12.5A, on 7 NiCd's or 8 NiMh and was rated at about 55%-65% efficient. They would fly a 1 pound airplane well, at about 60-67mph, but it could be a challange to get them on step (like some EDF's we have all had). That was when we needed 65 watts/lb to just stay in the air, 75 watts/lb to pull loops, and 100/lbs watts was awsome. So these were doing 100+ watts input, and say 60-70 watts out. So where did all the rest go, brushes, heat, wasted energy somewhere, eveywhere.

So I brushless, but when a tiny motor pulls 12 Amps on a 30mm fan, and doesn't put out as much thrust as other fan/motor combos, it seems it must be an effieciency issue? Right?????

But I could see a test of the cool J-Power motor on a 40mm unit, seems like it might just be a pair made in heaven. I would start with 3 cell though! But here is the question, if it's a GWS type rotor, would you go 3 or 6 blades!

Fred
Yep---It's all about experimentation to see what works in the real world or not...Sometimes we are surprised at the combos that do work...

Personally, I wouldn't bother with trying to get a 30mm fan to work with these planes...These planes work very well with the 35mm fan but on at least 3S for decent performance...Decent performance meaning that the plane will easily perform large loops from level flight...But again, I subscribe to the "more power is better" crowd...I expect a jet to perform as such, not needing to pitch the model down to gain enough speed for a decent loop...

My Art Tech 30mm Sabre flies well on 4S which is more than the 3S recommendation...If I had the fan I would upgrade to a 35mm fan for more thrust...Thrust is what is needed to get a heavy plane moving...Velocity from the fan (spinning the fan at a higher RPM) is what is needed for speed...Due to the airframe sometimes the values between thrust and velocity are a compromise...

Again, it's experimentation that allows us to see what works in the real world, or not...

Kevin
Aug 27, 2012, 11:22 PM
Addicted to building...
Freddie B's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe 1320
I'm going to test a Jpower motor in a GWS 40mm fan and see what happens. I'll try a 6 blade impeller and a cut down 50mm 3 blade. If it works, it would be a light weight setup for sure. I have a feeling that it would be a 2s setup though. My usual setup is a 5800 kV inrunner on 3s. A 9000 kV motor should spin it pretty well on 2s.

There is also the possibilty of a 30mm fan on 4s too.
This is a great test I will love to see your results on for sure. I have this gut feeling it may be a great system for weight to power and consumption. The J-power moter is a good one.
Aug 28, 2012, 11:07 AM
Registered User
35 mm 5 blade fans back in stock at hobbyb.com
Aug 28, 2012, 12:05 PM
Registered User
Primate's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe 1320
It does, but I don't see it making anywhere near the difference in amp draw that was observed. For example, that same 5 blade rotor using a Jpower motor is under 6A on 2s vs. 20A with the AEO motor. Considering how small the Jpower motor is compared to the AEO, It makes me wonder why such a huge difference with reasonalby similar kV ratings. ie; 9000 kV vs 11000 kV In fact, the Jpower setup on 3s is still less than half the amp draw as the AEO on 2s.
Ahh, I see what you were saying now.
Aug 29, 2012, 02:31 PM
we can take off without that
green_flyer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroCharged
green_flyer - there's always the option of 3S
Thanks for testing on 3s, its good to know the option is there. Airframe hasnt arrived yet, my guess is it will be 70g, which will put me at 140g all up. In the meantime I'm having fun hunting around for small pudding pots at supermarkets for the GP fan shroud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Greene
But why go with smaller fan units???...This plane was made for 35mm fans and 30mm is a HUGE downgrade percentage wise...(Just think---A 10% smaller size is only 3.5mm...And we're talking larger downgrade than that...)

You will have to neck down the exhaust to get the most out of the 30mm units even on 3S...Too much work for marginal performance in my opinion...I fly my 35mm MiG 15 on 4S for big grins...

Kevin
I agree, playing around in the Jpower F86 duct the size difference is huge. However my perspective is, lower the weight and you need less thrust to acheive 1:1. The GP fan seems particularly efficient so I wanted to give it a go. For example I weighed my F86 airframe with almost all the bits and I'm at 75g, so it looks like with the GP fan I can make a Jpower 35mm EPO jet lighter than the E-flite Mig (and not too far off the GP Sabre as well)

p.s. I am cheating by using parkzone Cub guts & 1.5g linear servos
Aug 29, 2012, 09:23 PM
I ordered the F18 airframe only from hobbyb.com and I didnt get a canopy! it says plastic parts arent included so I guess its plastic, can anyone confirm this? also its not listed on that site, any ideas?
Aug 29, 2012, 09:41 PM
always something to learn...
metalguy's Avatar
I pulled the trigger on the f-86, and I am not sorry! I utilize a walkera transmitter, and the small recievers they use in their helicopters use the molex connectors, so it was an easy thing to put one in. Only one problem, the wires had to be swapped from one side to the other, so the signal wire would be correct. I used a pin to depress the connector tab, and they swapped out easily enough. I flew it stock, and it seems to fly really well for such a tiny aircraft. I am fairly new to EDF aircraft, and even I can fly this little guy! I am not so sure I want 3s so soon, though....maybe some time, but if I want to go fast, I can just fly my Komet!!! I am presently wading through this thread, so I can see what mods are popular. Gonna take a while. Anyway, I like it, and I am hooked!!!!-------Metalguy
Aug 29, 2012, 10:36 PM
www.hobbyb.com's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by forsakenrider
I ordered the F18 airframe only from hobbyb.com and I didnt get a canopy! it says plastic parts arent included so I guess its plastic, can anyone confirm this? also its not listed on that site, any ideas?
Sorry forsakenider, it was our mistake. The canopy should have been included in the F18 airframe set. Please email us your detail at service@hobbyb.com and we will send the missing canopy to you ASAP.

Nick
www.hobbyb.com
Aug 30, 2012, 10:52 AM
Registered User
3d astronaut's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by www.hobbyb.com
Sorry forsakenider, it was our mistake. The canopy should have been included in the F18 airframe set. Please email us your detail at service@hobbyb.com and we will send the missing canopy to you ASAP.

Nick
www.hobbyb.com
Awesome service right there.

I will now be placing my order through you instead of another supplier due to this very post. That and joe talked me into one of those 50mm with his review
Aug 30, 2012, 11:19 AM
Registered User
Joe 1320's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudflying
Awesome service right there.

I will now be placing my order through you instead of another supplier due to this very post. That and joe talked me into one of those 50mm with his review
Agreed! That's the kind of thing I've been harping on in another forum. Here is a perfect example of cheap prices and great customer service. It is perfectly understandable that mistakes can and will happen with any vender. How the vender responds and deals with issues speaks volumes about their integrity.
Aug 30, 2012, 12:21 PM
ICrashRCs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudflying
Awesome service right there.

I will now be placing my order through you instead of another supplier due to this very post. That and joe talked me into one of those 50mm with his review
I thought the same thing about the CS.
Trying to give Nick some of my money, but the Screamer PNP didn't come back into stock.
Aug 30, 2012, 02:02 PM
Registered User
3d astronaut's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by IFlyRCs
I thought the same thing about the CS.
Trying to give Nick some of my money, but the Screamer PNP didn't come back into stock.
I too am waiting on the pnp kit I just hope the bare frame doesnt go out of stock before the pnp kit comes back as I want to order both at the same time lol.


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