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Nov 21, 2017, 05:14 PM
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4stripes's Avatar
Time for a photo... or two....
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Nov 21, 2017, 05:30 PM
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That looks like a cover of Vogue magazine!!
All 'airbrushed up'.... this plane is best seen from a distance! (as per all RC Landers). LOL.

It actually has some 'good' aspects in what they do to/with it.... well what those ideas COULD have resulted in. They just DO IT poorly - very poorly.
The wing is SUPER robust, with so many spars and 'ribs' etc.... but done rough and thus mess up the finish.

The Fuselage is probably the main 'very nice' part... as it is almost only 'untouched' foam.
Nov 22, 2017, 05:51 AM
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4stripes's Avatar
Each wing is "super robust" but the center section has practically no strength stock. Most who built stock saw wings flapping. Super flimsy spars to join each half.

We added two arrow shaft spars to join the halves and it works.

I can't agree more about Lander quality! Seems they just don't have to time to perfect the products, just bang em out and ship em off.
Nov 22, 2017, 09:50 AM
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It has SOME stuff made really well. eg fuselage foam, fits, finish. Maybe about 50% is very good.... and the rest of the 50% of things are done very poorly!
But also luckily from the TOP it looks all good anyway!
Nov 23, 2017, 01:18 AM
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Hi I have been busy reading all the posts on this T-33 and still pulled the trigger last week when H. King in Aus. had it on sale. It has been a difficult build as others have mentioned but have worked through it. One thing I am having a problem with is wiring the ZTW Gecko hv opto esc and Dr Mad 5 amp bec to the receiver,I have only ever used esc with built in bec . I have a 3 wire servo cable from esc marked throttle that normally would go into # 3 and a 2 wire red and black 5volt wire from bec that I placed in 7 on my 7 channel receiver . The receiver is not getting any power so I have done something wrong. Any help with this would be appreciated .
Thanks Ken.
Nov 23, 2017, 04:11 AM
Foam addict
4stripes's Avatar
It could be a bad BEC. Personally I would use something other than a Lander BEC. Lost my A10 due brownout with a DRMadThrust aka Lander BEC.
5amp may be OK or it may not. I personally like the 20amp YEP BEC. Cheap with selectable voltage.
Nov 23, 2017, 04:49 AM
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Thanks 4 stripes I just tested the 5 v output with multimeter 0 volts there so ordered a Yep 20a.
Nov 23, 2017, 06:24 PM
Registered User
I pressed on with a some more T-33 work....

1) Screwed the airbrakes onto their control horns - they come standard just hot glued onto the plastic airbrake! As if that would ever LAST!!

2) Made a new rear end tray for the RX/stab. Under the rear end of the hatch.
That needed the rear cockpit 'tub' cut away - but the front cockpit is shallow anyway, so I am not fussed that they are now BOTH shallow.

3) The SBEC goes up front on the upper battery tray. I will use a YEP 20A, but did the testing with the supplied Dr Mad one.
Whilst "5A" is enough, it probably is not truly 5A anyway!
There is ONE issue with using a 20A SBEC..... it CAN provide 20A, and when something goes WRONG that means SMOKE and BURNT WIRING! Long before the SBEC shuts down, because 20A capability means it CAN turn the wiring into heater elements easily, without shutting itself down!
But a 5A SBEC would shut down instantly!!

4) Made a new 'floor' for the battery area, so that it is one consistent large floor. Plus then allows a lot more battery placement leeway, whilst still being on the velcro floor.
I wanted the whole battery area to be OPEN and clear of impedances. To allow easy placement, removal, and wiring connections.
Thus the RX and SBEC were kept away from there. Plus the SBEC kept away from the RX.

5) Wing connector.
Luckily I make these things REMOVABLE. Bolted in. Because I unthinkingly used a DB9 connector.... allowing only THREE signal runs. But there are FOUR!! (Ailerons, Flaps, Gear and Airbrakes!!). So I will change that connector to a DB15, which is physically the same size and mounting.
OR, I could just common up some Positives and Negatives.
But either way I need to make up NEW connector, so what I use is no difference to that.

I use a 'standard' wiring pattern on the connectors, because you want to have a 'test connector' made up also, to allow plugging the WING connector into that, to a servo tester then. In case you need to test WING mounted servos/things. And having a standard means that one test connector works on all aircraft you set up.

....
Nov 24, 2017, 01:47 AM
Registered User
Plenty of good mods there Peter, I like the multiple wire connector. I don,t know if mine will fit in the car with wings on yet might have to do something similar with the wiring.
My T33 came with plenty of hanger rash from the factory plus I added a bit myself lol, plus the silver paint had a lot of rubbish in it. I thought I could live with all the marks but it got the better of me so I filled the gaps in the seems along the rear fuse and gave the silver a light sand. After a mild repaint I will try a clear top coat maybe this will harden the surface a bit.
Nov 26, 2017, 07:44 PM
Registered User
So many things to do.....

Next in the queue of mods was to change the nose gear to pushrod steering.
This would need a suitable 'pushrod steering CONTROL ARM' - which you generally cannot buy easily. So best, for me, is to make a custom alloy one anyway.

Firstly, checking the STATIC AoA Stance, the T-33 was a bit nose DOWN. That was GOOD to see, as the steering arm being between the retract trunion and oleo would add some height to the nose.
The amount needed to be 'wings AoA neutral" was 10mm. So I used some 10mm alloy plate to cut the arm from.

I could have 'stolen' the steering arm off a PZ/hobbyking 'large' type steering retract, which would actually work very well too, but they are nylon and only use a self tapping screw to clamp them onto the retract pin. If I make my own I can drill/tap it for a 3mm or 4mm grub screw there instead - and being in alloy it will not strip like a screw in nylon. I also get to make the grub screw 'depth' 4mm or 5mm, and use longer grub screws - to have more thread and much stronger grip too.
Then ALSO.... I can make my "Slider Arm" portion of the steering arm, LONG. Seeing most (the PZ included) only give a barely adequate slide arm length to 'absorb' steering motions if the Rudder to Nose Steering system is on one channel. I usually use two channels so that I can DISABLE the steering on retraction anyway, but if I keep the Rudder/Nose Steering linked on one channel then I only need 8 channels in total for the T-33. No need for an SBUS decoder to get more channels.
Thus, having a longer slider that allows that all to operate 'cleanly' is better.

I forgot to take pics, so will do that soon...

I have not decided WHERE the steering servo will go!
But it will go well rearwards - probably on the upper battery tray, to one fuselage side - and use a long pushrod, or 'sleeve' type pushrod up to the nose area.
This is to have it somewhere easily accessible - which can't really be done in the forwards nose bay area.
Nov 27, 2017, 11:34 PM
Registered User

Pushrod Steering


My Steering Arm is just a 'block' for now. Usually I 'machine'... err file(!)... it all down to minimums, so that 'meat' is only where it is required. But this one is fairly big and will need a lot of filing effort! And in reality, the weight of NOT filing it down more is a 'nothing' so for the moment I am not too interested in even doing that.

The Retract Pin with Groove put into it means you can remove the nose leg EXTERNALLY. Rather than need to open up the retract as per pins with a flange inside there.
You can see the two grub screw positions in the 'face' of the trunion. It is set up to use the furtherest in one of those, to 'trap' (NOT clamp!) the retract pin via its groove.

Now I just need to decide WHERE the steering servo will actually go.......

....
Nov 29, 2017, 01:50 AM
Registered User
Nice job with the custom steering on the front retract, I used the pull pull system and it was a pain. Lander tied 2 pieces of fishing trace to the retract and drilled a small hole through the clear covering behind the wheel well and tied it off on the other side but was to short to reach where a servo would be mounted. If the steering servo is to be mounted under the battery tray why is there no ply mount for it, seems like Lander came to the steering system and said the customer will work it out. I hot glued my steering servo to the foam and strengthened it with extra foam on the sides of the servo but I am not that happy with this method.
The new bec arrived and this one worked fine it was great to hear the motor power up and blow all the stuff off my shelves wow.
Clear skies Ken.
Nov 30, 2017, 09:25 AM
Registered User

Pushrod Nose Wheel Steering


The T-33 comes with Pull-Pull wire steering - that it just a rubbish method! Fraught with slop and error.
PUSHROD Steering is by far the best method. So I always do that....

First I needed a Control Arm for the pushrod steering system. There are only very limited options in buying those, so I most often make my own from Alloy. In this case it can be done very easily... just a bit of cutting, filing and drilling... then one hole to Tap for a 3mm (or 4mm) grub screw.
In the T-33 there is no real problem leaving it as a pure 'oblong block' - but most often I file away a lot of the unnecessary material to form a more traditional steering arm shape. Seeing I am not fussed over WEIGHT at all, and that the 'oblong block' looks fine in the T-33, I will not bother machining it to be 'nicer'.

When you make your own you can have a nice LONG 'Slider Rod' - which is where any steering travel will be 'absorbed' that occurs when the nose gear is RETRACTED. You must have a Slider Rod to account for that OR use a separate Steering Channel so that you can DISABLE the Steering Servo when the Gear Switch for Retraction is switched. But even then there is always SOME other source of a bit of 'motion' in the pushrod system, so it is just best to ALWAYS use a Slider Rod method. It is sort of a case of "Using Pushrod Steering?... then HAVE a Slider Rod!"

The next Pushrod Steering (or even Pull-Pull) requirement is to have a Servo for the Steering of course.
I wanted mine to be totally accessible... easily!
The best place for that was on the fuselage inner wall, right after the upper front battery tray. That keeps it from 'wasting' space in that battery area.

I made up a 5ply Plywood mount/bracket for the servo and then screwed that onto the rear corner of that Upper Battery Tray. I could have epoxied it all in, but I decided I wanted it all REMOVABLE also. For any future work it might ever need done.
The Servo can already come out on its own anyway - out sideways from the mount.

The T-33 has the nose areas all closed off with Clear PVC pieces inside the nose area. This meant I needed to use a soldering iron to BURN a hole through that, for the pushrod to pass through. I made it large enough to fit the whole Servo end control horn on it also - to make it very easy to fit, remove, do work on ever.

The Steering Servo arm 'points' outboard - towards the fuselage inner wall - so that its arc of travel matches the Nose Gear Steering Arm arc.

I need to add a 'Guide Plate' towards the front end of the pushrod length. This is a piece of plywood with a SLOT horizontally in it, so that the pushrod maintains a particular HEIGHT on the Slide Rod. This is so that the pivot point of the steering control arm is the same height as the retract pivot point.
This means the 'folding' process of retraction/extension creates 'zero' pushrod pressure - even though the Slide Rod is there to 'absorb' that anyway. It is all just much smoother flowing, less servo stresses, if it is 'just right' in the first place. So it is worth the easy addition of a guide plate.
(I will add that tomorrow evening)

All in all, in operation.... perfect. Zero freeplay and solid accurate motions. And no issues under retraction or extension. Which is the whole aim of doing it anyway!

....
Nov 30, 2017, 09:34 AM
Registered User
"Luckily" this weekend it is going to RAIN big time! Three days of very heavy rain coming. (just as SUMMER begins here!)
So there will be no flying pretty well for sure.
That should give me time to finish the T-33 finally.....

And do some Power tests etc.

Things to do:

1) Add the pushrod steering 'guide plate'

2) Fix up the Wing half of the wiring and connector.

3) Make up the cockpit/canopy - pilot etc.
And fit a REAR end slide lock for the hatch - as I 'reversed' their oddball 'slide lock at the FRONT' idea.

4) Fix the front gear doors so they work properly. Some elastic to close them, not lame unworkable, unreliable, fishing line!

5) TEST that everything is truly all done... working!... and ready!

In quick balance tests, it was quite nose heavy even with just 9S used!!! And would get even worse for 10S of course.
So that aspect might need a bit of modding to get it to work properly.
Or at worst... some LEAD in the tail end......

Surely(?) it will be only one days work to do ALL that stuff..... (but it never seems to work out that way!)
Nov 30, 2017, 10:45 AM
Foam addict
4stripes's Avatar
Peter your generalizations are simply not true about pull pull steering. If you take the same amount of care setting it up as you do the pushrod type, it will work every bit as well. It isn't rocket science, but it does take some attention to detail. I have many jets flying successfully with both styles. The both work equally well with no reliability issues whatsoever.

Any slop and error found in steering the T33 will be the sloppy Lander nose and main oleos (and retracts). They have far too much play in all areas.


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