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Apr 11, 2011, 01:52 PM
Registered User
jarel design's Avatar
Smiling here,

welcome to the world of designing "unusual" aircraft! lol! (Trust me, it's WORTH it!) Even avter the prototype crashes, re-builds, more modifications... Once you see this Tron plane of yours head for the skies, you will feel on top of the world... Be prepared to offer a complete build thread and plans! You will most certainly have a following!

25" is a great size! even without airfoils (Check out my EyePlane thread with free plans for a larger AP plane. I converted a flat plate into an airfoils (complete with much wanted, stabilizing washout) using sheet Depron (super easy to do, a little more worrk, but the lift and stability will be worth it... lots of photos on how to do it and why (theoretical)...
You could probably still use your spektrum brick for your elevator, twin servos for ailerons and a speed control to operate the 2S motor. Somewhere around here is a wiring diagram on how to hook up the AR6400 with a 2S cell so that you are still running the brick on 1S (I learned this one from "UNG" (Great modeler and a wealth of info... Is he here? maybe he could post his wiring diagram?)

My thoughts are that the stock mustang type motors just won't provide the margin of thrust you may want (need)... a small brushless like the 10gr 1811 2000kv motor is still light, chap ($7.99) and will provide more power than you will ever want while allowing you to go up to 200 grams AUW (this way, thrust to weight ratio will be the last of your concerns while designing and building.)

Best,
Richard
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Apr 11, 2011, 01:55 PM
Registered User
jarel design's Avatar
Oh... I meant to share this...

Over my work station I have a plaque with these words:

To design an aircraft is nothing...
To build it is little...

To make it fly... Is everything!

~ Igor Syskorski

One of the great aviation pioneers I look up to regarding moreal support when the first one off the board doesn't fly... just take it back to the shop, figure out what you think went wrong and try again until you succeed.

Apr 11, 2011, 03:26 PM
Rorschach's Journal
Thread OP
I've seen that diagram. Could probably find it again if need be.

So these?
https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=5358
Wired to the brick... separate aileron servo... clear rudder... I need to start writing this down lol
With the clear vertical, I can flatten out the wing again, right?
Is there an esc that you guys can recommend for this?

Gotta reread all these posts, still feel like I'm forgetting everything haha.

Thanks for all the support and info on this project. It's getting to be far more than I had originally planned out. As it usually does haha.
Apr 11, 2011, 04:40 PM
Registered User
jarel design's Avatar
that's THE motor to get Great RPM and power on 2S (I use the Zippy 350ma 20C and the Rhino 360ma 20C ...If you have a choice, get the Rhino (a little more ma capacity), but both are great. It's more a matter of which one will come out of back order status first... then JUMP on them! lol!

You will need an ESC to run this motor using your Brick. The brick will not accept a brushless or 2S cells.

Yes, you can straighten out the V=tail Seems there's a little angle in there anyway, yo can keep that. You can also run verticals on top and bottom, starting at the trailing edge of the mail wing in a straight angle gaining height as you continue rearward, This will help hide that they're there keeping them lower than just a regular protruding vertical stab. Taller on top, shorter on bottom (landing skids? ... grass landings should be fine),,, easier to run twin servos for your ailerons, hook them up into a parallel "Y" configuration. then you don't need to worry about linkages etc...

I've purchased dozens of the little 3.7 (3.8gr?) HK micro servos and they run great, small, yet stronger than the their 2.5 gram servos and half the price ($3.99?)

more advice? write down EVERYTHING! when you make a part, make a pattern for it... if it flies, you'll want another, if it crashes, you will be further ahead of the game than when you started... take photos (if not to share here, for yourself as reference. also write down the exact weight, the exact CG starting position... I mark up my prototype planes with all of this information. comes in handy later.

God! I should not be here... I have taxes to prepare and a new 26" span plane on the board I'm doing a build thread for... (Same as you and following same advice... First prototype was 22" span... just a little too quick for what I was wanting. second version scaled up to 26" using the exact same components I suggested to you... I have several ESC, from the Mystery 12amp, to the HK 8/10amp, tp the Plush 10amp (I wanted to get the smaller 6amp one but they've been back ordered for a while and I needed them for the prototypes I'm building. My goal for this new aerobatic kit is 100grams. this will give me some great vertical while still flying relatively slow (5030 and 6030 props)

Hope this helps!

Best,
Richard
Apr 11, 2011, 04:54 PM
Rorschach's Journal
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarel design
You will need an ESC to run this motor using your Brick. The brick will not accept a brushless or 2S cells.
I had found the post about wiring the brick for a 2s... then my browser crashed... off to find it again.

Are those the escs you'd recommend for this? I had the page for the HK 8/10 bookmarked for another idea. Just add that one to the list.

edit:
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...97&postcount=7
That'll do.
Last edited by PierceOConnell; Apr 11, 2011 at 05:10 PM.
Apr 11, 2011, 06:50 PM
Power Wheels Guru
UNGN's Avatar
Here is an easy way to wire an AR6400 to a 2S ESC.



I use a regular RX to program the ESC as required, then plug it in as shown.

The AR6400 needs too long to gets it's wits back after being powered down to enable ESC programming, making it hard to use to program the ESC.
Apr 11, 2011, 08:52 PM
Registered User
jarel design's Avatar
UNGN!

Glad you're here! I've followed you around from thread to thread and find you to be a wealth of information... Yes! That's the wiring diagram... I copied it when I furst found it (along with some others you made) and printed them and placed them in my Electrickery file folder! lol!

regarding which ESC... gotta sk someone else... I just ordered what HK had after reading reviews for them... The HK 8/10 amp seems to be ok (I've used one, ordered four more... a LOT of people seem to like the Plush 6amp, but it's been back ordered for so long... When it comes to ESC choice, I'm open to learn from those who know more.

Richard
Apr 11, 2011, 10:04 PM
Power Wheels Guru
UNGN's Avatar
Richard, the 6A is a little lighter, but both work well.

Best regards,
Apr 12, 2011, 01:00 AM
Rorschach's Journal
Thread OP
Want to hit the order button for the HK components... Gotta wait a day or two and see what the bank has to say about it first...
Apr 12, 2011, 01:01 AM
Registered User
jimjim06's Avatar
I belive that the movie version of the Light jet 3 has a V-tail thats OK for flying, see the 2nd pic posted in this thread, its the toy that has an almost flat "V".

Im following this thread and hope to see a build come out of it!

I just had to see the movie after reading through this, and its OK.
looks like the Light Jet3 has a really nice V-tail, i guess 90-120 degrees, or so.
Only problem I see with that tail is that it goes down under the booms and might break off on landings.

Kind regards, Tommy
Apr 12, 2011, 01:08 AM
TheyreComingToTakeMeAway!
derk's Avatar
its actually shallower than it is in that picture, its a little deceiving because the sides of the V are swept forwards and make it look deeper ant that angle.. though the large size of them may make it workable. when i get home i will make a small chuck glider to see how stable it is
Apr 12, 2011, 01:16 AM
Rorschach's Journal
Thread OP
I got a top view thanks to MiamiRacer's thread. I'd love a front or side view of it, but I can't find anything halfway decent. It would definitely clear up some issues haha

I can add some skids underneath so the tail is cleared during landings. Not gonna be landing on anything but grass so that'll help. Wont be too good for the scale looks though.
Apr 12, 2011, 09:52 AM
Registered User
jarel design's Avatar
Thanks UNGN,

I'm not an electrical wizard by any means and in this department, I learn from people like you. I've heard that some speed controllers won't work, or provide very rough transitional steps or the motor "stutters" when starting (could also be the motors), I just wanted to get some lightweight low amp ESC and the HK 8/10 seemed to be the choice especially for the price (I think I have 6 of them coming in... a LOT of new kits coming this summer in this size... and couldn't wait any longer.)

Regarding V-Tail... maybe on the internet are some three views used for the movie... Possibly check out some back issues of Cinefex (Trade magazine for special effects guys) either way, if there's 100 to 110 degrees of angle, then the V-Tail will indeed work, if not, you can always opt for the clear plastic verticals...

regarding the lowered V-Tail and landings... the breaking point (high stress) will be the booms right where the booms connect with the tail... one option for releasing this is to use a thin carbon rod (.020"~.030") along the bottom point of the V-Tail and run it up to the back of the fusealge. the stress will be pulling and the CF rod will take it. not much side impact and it will act like a sled guide on grass while being almost invisible in the air. This will cancel out the need for non-scale landing skids.

Richard
Apr 13, 2011, 10:45 AM
Post Digger
Baratacus's Avatar
I was thinking the same thing about the vtail reinforcing rod. that should even the load nicely, and a thin carbon rod is practically invisible.

Here's a link to a photo stream with a whole bunch of shots from different angles... haven't found any 3-views yet.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/6901604...n/photostream/
Apr 13, 2011, 01:38 PM
Registered User
jimjim06's Avatar
Some nice pics here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/6901604...th/5563010437/

Some photos show the V- angle, and som show how the tail is connected to the fuselage

Tommy


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