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Sep 16, 2017, 06:40 PM
Heath

VAM Combat Challenge


Big thanks to everyone who came out for the VAM Combat Challenge. We had 12 pilots fly today.

Scores:
Steve Kiser: 320
Mark Alswager: 404
George Reynolds: 532
Michel Stoop: 722
Bob Fels: 968
Tim Stadler: 980
Jim Redlin: 1140
Bradley Robertson: 1332
Peyton Verhagen: 1335
Mickey Prock: 1624
Heath Bartel: 1948
Matt Cramer: 2278

Special thanks to Tim Stadler for being the event CD and Travis Stone for making the trophies.
Last edited by Salin; Sep 16, 2017 at 08:01 PM.
Sep 16, 2017, 06:43 PM
Registered User
Congrats to the 320, is this combat scoring like golf, the lowest score wins?
Sep 16, 2017, 07:31 PM
Registered User
timflight1's Avatar
Wow what a great day today! Great way to end the combat season. Congratulations to all participants for a fun and safe event. We are going to fly the same FT-Arrow and setup next year so everyone can begin to prepare soon. Month of May will be here before you know it. Here are some pics from the combat challenge!
Sep 17, 2017, 06:28 PM
T.R. miller
tr miller's Avatar
So will it be and arrow class next year?
Sep 18, 2017, 08:59 PM
Heath
I think the class we flew this year was very successful and fun. We had the highest number of average pilots per night of any season we have flown. This class is more approachable to new flyers than .46 open or Gnat.

This is what I would like to fly:

E1000 Electric Class:
1. no sharp edges
2. no sticky fluids
3. Double sided tape and leading edge notches are allowed.
4. All aircraft must use one, three cell 1000mah lipo or smaller.
5. Motor, prop, ESC, and air frame is open.
6. Aircraft must be flown line of sight.
(Changes in bold)

First I want to open it up to more aircraft types and let people experiment with different air frames. The FT-Arrow is a good balance of easy to build, easy to fly, reasonable durability, easy to fix and low cost. I am also impress by the Scythe. It is slightly more expensive but is more durable. I have not built a Scythe so I can't compare the build difficulty.

Second, I found that flying FPV and line of sight at the same time gives a large edge to the FPV pilot when flown strategically by proficient pilots with comparable aircraft. The FPV gear does not add much weight or drag so the planes are evenly matched. The FPV pilot has an advantage in lining up planes but I thought the disadvantage of not being able to look behind to see other aircraft would balance this. But it turns out that the FPV pilot can hang out in the back edge of the combat box where he has a big advantage over the LOS pilots in lining up the planes due to depth perception. The FPV pilot can't look behind himself but he does not have to if he flies deep and only slips back in to engage in one on one battles. If he looses sight of the plane he is dueling with he can just duck out the back of the combat box and loose anyone who is after him.
Sep 19, 2017, 11:37 AM
Registered User
Jerry, great video of the combat event. Also, can't wait to see how the two horses and a man turns out? Hope the man makes a friend!
Sep 19, 2017, 03:15 PM
My dog ate my airplane
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salin
I think the class we flew this year was very successful and fun. We had the highest number of average pilots per night of any season we have flown. This class is more approachable to new flyers than .46 open or Gnat.

This is what I would like to fly:

E1000 Electric Class:
1. no sharp edges
2. no sticky fluids
3. Double sided tape and leading edge notches are allowed.
4. All aircraft must use one, three cell 1000mah lipo or smaller.
5. Motor, prop, ESC, and air frame is open.
6. Aircraft must be flown line of sight.
(Changes in bold)

First I want to open it up to more aircraft types and let people experiment with different air frames. The FT-Arrow is a good balance of easy to build, easy to fly, reasonable durability, easy to fix and low cost. I am also impress by the Scythe. It is slightly more expensive but is more durable. I have not built a Scythe so I can't compare the build difficulty.

Second, I found that flying FPV and line of sight at the same time gives a large edge to the FPV pilot when flown strategically by proficient pilots with comparable aircraft. The FPV gear does not add much weight or drag so the planes are evenly matched. The FPV pilot has an advantage in lining up planes but I thought the disadvantage of not being able to look behind to see other aircraft would balance this. But it turns out that the FPV pilot can hang out in the back edge of the combat box where he has a big advantage over the LOS pilots in lining up the planes due to depth perception. The FPV pilot can't look behind himself but he does not have to if he flies deep and only slips back in to engage in one on one battles. If he looses sight of the plane he is dueling with he can just duck out the back of the combat box and loose anyone who is after him.
Heath, your observations about FPV are interesting and I would've thought as you did that the lack of peripheral vision with FPV would've canceled out any advantage gained by flying with the goggles.

So I just wanted to comment briefly on the Scythe that I put together for my dad to try with all of you this season. I think the build is likely a bit more involved than an FT Arrow, although I have not actually built the Arrow myself, but I did do some repair work on a couple of them while I was visiting this summer. The good news is that if you build a Scythe per the Crash Test Hobby instructions, you will most likely not have to do a whole lot in the way of repairs after flying combat with it, as they have proven to be extremely durable. And for anyone in the group there who may be interested in this airplane, you can check out the build instructions for it at the following link:

http://www.crashtesthobby.com/scythe-instructions.html

The one departure from the stock build that I did for my dad was the motor mount, he has a 3D printed mount on his to more easily mount the quad motors you guys are using. Here's the link on thingiverse for the mount I used:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1869643

Anyway, I think your open airframe rules proposal is a great idea. Hopefully it will encourage people to experiment a little, and with the maximum battery size limit and 5 minutes of flying time per round requirements, you shouldn't really get anybody with any huge advantages over any other airframes, as there's only so much you can do within the rules framework.

From my experiences with flying both the Scythe and the Arrow while I was there, the Arrow has a better glide and is probably an advantage to the spot landing part of your combat sessions, but you could probably set up a Scythe with a smaller motor and battery that would still be easily capable of 5 minute rounds and have the same glide slope as the Arrow. The Scythe I fly in San Diego has a 17 gram 2300kv blue wonder style motor on an 850mah 3s battery and is built with less Extreme tape and laminate and it glides as good as an Arrow if not better and would probably be competitive with your club rules. So people could experiment not only with airframes, but with the gear itself on a specific airframe.

And I will just say that I fly foamie electric park flyer size airplanes exclusively and have quite a bit of experience with power systems and aircraft in the size range of your VAM combat class. So if any VAM folks have any questions about specific motors, props, ESCs for foamies of this size, I can probably provide some guidance about what has worked for me in the past. So feel free to post a question on this thread or even PM me directly, and I'll try and help out.


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