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Feb 24, 2011, 04:39 PM
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tests on motors for 6400


i began testing some motors for these planes:
tests on geared motors
i will post here figures on bench tests. i got the data using an e meter Mk I, that reads and saves figures on v/a/w/rpm's. volts are under load and no load. props used were horizon's 5.1 and 6.3, and gws 6/3 and 7/3.5. cells were hk 160 nano and 240 hyperion, charged to 90%.
> > > please notice that i got thrust figures with a tahmazo scale that measures on increments of 5 grams (like: 30, 35, 40...). this means that these figures should be seen as approximate rather than exact, as they could be let's say 49 and it's shown as 45...i don't know how it's programmed. someone may confirm or adjust this using the rest of the data with motocalc or similar. feel free to bring that data.
motors tested were coreless brushed 8.5 and brushless 10 mm. i named the 8.5 by color of rear cap (also called rear end bell):
clear is the original on sukhoi and champ; black on 4s/p51; grey is solo pro sp; white is bravo sx. p47 motor is same as bravo. pinions are 9 tooth.
figures were measured after 5 seconds run wot (wide open throttle) , once stabilized. i have been testing motors this way as a measure to prevent failures due to overloading anything, but they may drop considerably afterwards, when reaching the flat part of the discharge curve. some of the motor/prop/cell combinations can't handle wot, although can be used under less throttle settings or smaller props for normal flying.
data is shown to be used only as comparison between these motors, as it varies depending of equipment used.
i suggest to use it to find the proportion between them: as 'clear' is the mildest, take it as the standard against which to compare. like: clear :100%.
i also will show data on the kenway geared 1015 brushless.

march 28-an update: comparison between 160mah nano hk and 240 hyperion cells using 6400 brick

figures are thrust/volts under load-no load/amps/watts/rpm


motor: clear #2 (used)
160 nano; prop hh 5.1: 35/ 3.54-4.00/ 1.2/ 4/ 6210
240 hyp; prop 5.1: 40/ 3.73-4.05/ 1.2/ 4/ 6360

these motors handle the 6.3 and 5.1 props with 160 cells, and am showing the figures also with 240 to have a comparison in performance. below will show figures of the others with 160 and 240 too.
240 cell shows improvement, as expected . now we have grounds to compare with the blacks.

motor: black (used).
figures are thrust/volts under load-no load/amps/watts/rpm.
comparison bet 160 and 240 hyp cell.
160 nano; prop 5.1: 45/3.39-4.01/1.5/5/6600
240 hyp; 5.1 prop: 55/ 3.73-4.05/1.8/6/7080

compared to clears on equal terms (5.1 prop/240 cell), they give some 10-15 grams more thrust, while using more amps and watts.

motor: grey (sp)-new.
160 nano; 5.1 prop: 45/3.42-4.05/1.4/4/6450
240 hyp; 5.1 prop: 55/3.71-4.03/1.6/6/ 6630

on these tests, thrust figures are not so significant as are rpm's. comparing grey with black, grey gets same thrust with less rpm with same prop (5.1). better consider rpm's for comparison. perhaps it needs more breaking-in.

motor: white (bravo sx)-new.
160 nano; 5.1 prop: 50/ 3.34-3.97/ 1.5/5/ 6510
240 hyp; 5.1 prop: 55/ 3.62-3.99/ 1.8/ 6/ 6870
more thrust/rpm than grey.

p47 (bravo sx)-new-on its gb and prop
160 nano; it's own 5.1 prop: 45/ 3.30-3.92/ 1.6/ 5/ 6570
240 hyp; same prop: 55/ 3.64-3.99/ 1.9/ 6/ 7110
p47 develop more rpm's that the white, perhaps due to a better mesh.
i must mention that these p47 motor/gear box have an absolutely smooth mesh (and i have 4 of them-all same smooth)-feels better than stock gb. but their shaft is 1.55mm, not 1.50 as the stock gb, and has no thread at the front, so you have to use their own prop that comes with a special adaptor. still, this prop performs identically as the stock 5.1, although looks a little bit different (more rounded tips). it seems that the 5.1 is the best bet with these motors-that's why i am using it for this evaluation .

march 14: testing 1015 with kenway gb-new-240 hyp
gws 6/3 prop: 50/3.41-3.96/1.7/6/5520
gws 7/3.5 prop: 55/3.28-3.90/1.9/6/4800
the only 1 that handles these props well; 7" prop still ok. a/w/ increase, but thrust too. i tried the gws's on the others, but it's too much and they quit. i was unable to try the hh 5.1 and 6.3 with this, due to the prop shaft being 1.5mm. the main difference (and i think an improvement) between this motor/gb and the others is that motor and gb run on ball bearings, and the motor is brushless, which means that it will last way longer and the timing can be changed, and programmed for brake, although with this motor the gb has to be fitted, and needs an extra 1 to 2 gr esc.

march 18: testing grey and white with 7 tooth pinion. ( gives 5.1 gear ratio)

grey-240 hyp
hh 5.1 prop: 40/3.64-4.10/1.0/3/6030
hh 6.3 prop: 45/3.48-4.12/1.1/4/5220
gws 6/3 prop: 50/3.62-4.10/1.2/4/5430
gws 7/3.5 prop: 50/3.57-4.08/1.4/5/4860

white-240 hyp
hh 5.1 prop: 45/3.53-4.08/1.1/4/6240
hh 6.3 prop: 50/3.35-4.03/1.4/4/5370
gws 6/3 prop: 55/3.51-4.06/1.5/5/5550
gws 7/3.5 prop: 50/3.42-4.06/1.7/5/4950
the idea of using 7t is to be able to use larger props for slow flying. besides, there is no need to replace the pinion, but the gb has to be milled to mesh.
the amps/watts drop compared to using 9t.

march 29: gear box with ball bearings for 8.5 motors-comparison with bushings gb
tests of motors with stock gb with brass bushings and then gb from Todd, with ball bearings.
5.1 hh prop, 160 nano cell. thrust/volts/amps/watts/rpm
clear #2: with bushings: 35/3.58-4.00/1.2/4/6210;
with bb: 45/3.60-4.08/1.2/4/6300;
black #2: with bushings: 45/3.39-4.01/1.5/5/6480;
with bb: 45/3.46-4.06/1.5/5/6810;
grey: with bushings: 40/3.48-4.05/1.4/5/6450
with bb: 50/3.55-4.12/1.4/5/6630;
white: with bushings: 50/4.12-3.50/1.7/6/6750;
with bb: 50/4.10-3.48/1.7/6/6840. there is an increase of rpm (that means less friction) at same v/a/w.

march 30: ball bearings gb: comparison bet 160 and 240 mah cells. 5.1hh prop
clear #2: 160 cell: 45/3.60-4.09/1.2/4/6300
240 cell: 50/3.73-3.97/1.2/4/6480
black: 160 cell: 45/3.46-4.06/1.5/5/6810
240 cell: 55/3.60-3.92/1.5/5/6930
grey: 160 cell: 50/3.55-4.12/1.4/5/6630
240 cell: 50/3.62-3.92/1.4/5/6690
white: 160 cell: 50/3.48-4.10/1.7/6/6840
240 cell: 55/3.57-3.90/1.6/6/6930
so, yes, there is an improvement on rpm's with the larger cell, as expected.
and that black is quite something.
tests on m1015gb-bb

may 31
here are figures on the micron 1015gb with ball bearings on the gb too. measured with the emeter I. thrust measured with the tahmazo scale.
240 hyperion 1 cell, HK XP 3A 1S esc (from hk):
thrust/volts under-no load/amps/watts/rpm:
6/3 gws: 55/3.44/3.99/2.2/7/5910
7/3.5 gws: 60/3.37-3.97/2.4/8/5010

160 hk nano 1 cell, same esc
6/3 gws: 50/3.25-3.94/2.0/6/5520
7/3.5 gws: stops. can't handle the load.
cells charged to 90%. figures are at 5 seconds from start.
and these are the figures with the kenway gb:
testing 1015 with kenway gb-new-240 hyp
figures are: thrust/volts-under load-no load/amps/watts/rpm:
gws 6/3 prop: 50/3.41-3.96/1.7/6/5520
gws 7/3.5 prop: 55/3.28-3.90/1.9/6/4800
so the m1015gb-bb delivers more rpm/thrust than with the kenway gb with both gb with bb.

conclusions:
the possibilities with these motors are as follows:
1.-stock 8.5 motors:
a.-the original (clear) motor work fine with planes like my elf 18 or 20, and the prop (6.3) that came with these motors does fine, too. 110 to 160 mah cells.
b.-the black that comes with the 4s/p51 develops more power but needs the smaller prop (5.1). i don't see the need for it on my elfs 20 or 22. the 24 does fine with it, and does not seem to need anything else for the kind of flying that i do (max 50% throttle).
2.-with comments on short life with stock motors, we got;
a.- the sp (solo pro) from rcbabbel, with the 9 tooth pinion already installed. i have it on 1 of my elfs but so far no motor has died on me so am unable to say how much longer these motors outlive the stock ones. same power as the black.
b.-also from rc we get the xp (bravo) that develops more power than the black.
c.-there is also the p47 motor/gb from 9 eagles, that has the bravo motor and the gb is practically the same as the stock. i tested it on my elf 24 and runs fine, too. and it comes with a prop saver that really saves props and is easy to install-just press-on.
3.-we also have the brushless 1015. it needs an extra esc, but this allows for brake and timing adjusts. it is more powerful than the bravo.
a.-it can be installed on the kenway gear box, but requires some fine milling. it is 4.2 ratio, and handles the gws 6/3 and 7/3.5 well with 160mah cell.
b.-another possibility is buying it with the micron gear box, that is 4.0 ratio. it does not require further work, but needs a prop adapter like the EFLM1933 by eflite. it develops more thrust/rpm, but takes more juice from the cell, and so far i have to use the 240mah, otherwise with the 160 it stops if run beyond 60% throttle.
both versions (1015) do well for situations where the most power is required, like on 3d flying.
now am field-testing several. see tests at the planes threads.

nov 2: am adding figures on the new EP-BRUSH8 from hk, and the 1015 with the mystery 5.0:1 gb. this 1 i have been also field testing on 2 of my planes.

EP-BRUSH8 gear ratio 5.66:1

160hk nano single cell-same esc as before.
figures are thrust/volts under load-no load/amps/watts/rpm
gws 6/3 prop: 45/3.62-4.00/1.1/4/5010
gws 6/5: 45/3.34-3.96/1.5/4/3930
gws 7/3 trimmed down to 6" diameter: 45/3.51-3.99/1.2/4/4980
gws 7/3: 40/3.41-3.97/1.1/4/4590
with 240 hyperion single cell:
gws 7/6 trimmed down to 6" diam: 55/3.58-4.03/2.1/7/3540
gws 7/6:55/3.53-3.99/2.1/7/3120
6/5 prop same thrust as 6/3 but lower rpm and higher a/w means lower efficiency.
7/3 trimmed to 6 is about the same as 6/3.
7/6 and 7/6 trimmed to 6 required 240 cell, as with the 160, motor stopped as it exceeds max amps (1.9) mentioned on specs.
now, with the 6400, and if you are not running the motor at wot, like sport flying, the 160 can handle it.

mystery 5.0:1 gear ratio gb with 1015:

160hk nano single cell-same esc-gws 6/3: 50/3.35-3.96/1.5/5/5430
240 hyp cell-gws 6/5: 50/3.55-4.01/2.2/8/4350
240 cell-gws 7/3 trimmed to 7": 45/3.57-3.97/1.9/6/5400
160 cell-gws 7/3: 55/3.37-4.06/1.9/6/4830
240 cell-gws 7/6 trimmed to 6": 50/3.58-4.10/2.6/9/3450
240 cell-gws 7/6: 55/3.55-4.09/2.6/9/3000
when using 240 is due to the 160's not handling the load.
6/5 same thrust but higher a/w-lower rpm means less efficiency.
Last edited by phil alvirez; Nov 17, 2011 at 07:21 AM.
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