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Feb 14, 2011, 07:46 PM
Just call me crash for short
Quick61's Avatar
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Build Log

Spyderbreath XZH-1


This plan started with Just a thought, which turned into the orignal post below and now has come to this.....


****** Orignal Post******

Greetings all,

Attached are a couple of images and Sketchup files of my Spyderbreath XZH-1(eXperimental Zombie Hunter – 1. Hey, it's my plane, I get to name it) At the time of this writing I have the temples printed out and $tree foam waiting.

The front wing is a KF m7 with “enhanced” steeps (more on that in a minute). The flying tail is a FK m4 reverse sweep, scale of the front wing. Taking advantage of the quad tube boom this design should lend it's self quite well to a pull – pull setup for the control surfaces. This is the second steep and scale to the final goal of a twin motor / differential thrust / 72” aircraft. Steep 1 has been cutting out a KF m1 – m2, 1/6 scale glider to see if the design would even go through the air with out doing cartwheels or dragging it's tail around like a dog with worms. It Flies! Glided rather well as a matter of fact and the glider helped me sort out where I might expect to find the CG, which showed up at the trailing edge of the front wing where the boom joins.

Now for the enhanced steep. This is a slot cut just behind the first steep on the top and / or bottom wing (see pics and Sketchup files for reference). The purpose of this slot is to create a secondary vortex to help hold the vortex created by the steep to stay attached at slower speeds. Right or wrong in my thinking, I will cut the slots during pre-assembly and save the pieces so they can be installed or removed during the experimental flights to determine what benefit or harm they have, if any at all.

Finally, if I may tap into the collective wisdom of this group, before I commit knife to foam, I would like to receive comments and opinions on the following....

1.As to the sweep of the front wing, does it look enough/too much for a flying wing type of aircraft?
2.Does the size / shape of the control surfaces seem to be enough/too much?
3.ANYTHING else!

Let me take this last moment to acknowledge ApachePilot for his most excellent wing designs, as with just a look, one can see the influences of his Divinity II in this wing. (I think there are some things going on with that “artistic” design that are more than just looks). Also a special thanks to Dickeroo for all the info / encouragement that has gotten me to this point, oh, and for being the K in KF, bringing this steeped wing concept to the world.

I know my Spetchup skills are not the best, I have only been using it for a few days, sorry....

******END POST******

14, Feb, 2011

At this point, I have the parts cut out and wing slabs spliced together. As pointed out to me by Gene Bond in a later post over on the Kline-Fogleman (KFm) Airfoils - Building/Flying Discussion thread, I might want to increase the size of my vertical surfaces as they appearer on the small side. Sense that thought had come and went in my own mind, holding the line that the wing tabs primary mission is to keep the vortex(s) from spilling off the end of the wing, I had left them small. I will now be putting up the first revision to the plans, that being KF3'ish vertical wing tabs. As for now, I would not recommend inexpedience builders try this one yet as I have NO idea if it will even fly. The rest of you.. attempt at your own risk

Oh, and one more thing, went looking for some light weight tubing to use for the tail booms. I can report at this time I was able to purchase fuel for the buggy and NOTHING else. Came close when I stumbled across some wind chimes that had 1/4" aluminum tubes but they were too short. Everything in the aluminum department was 1/2" thick wall and bigger. As for arrow shafts... the one store that might sell them was conveniently closed on Mondays and the only other place that had arrows wanted $45 / box and did not sell just the shafts or individual arrows. Maybe better luck tomorrow. I just hate the thought of having to order CF tube. $4 in tube and $15 in shipping??? Thats hard to take.

15 Feb 2011

Just finished cutting the enhanced steeps in the 75% slab. Came out just like I had envisioned it. Very happy with the results so far. All the cutouts came out intact and were labeled so they can be replaced in their slots during the testing and experimentation phase of this build. The more this comes along the better I am feeling about it. I think that these enhanced steps (vortex traps) are going to make a differance, one way or the other, and I do think it will be to the good. Pictures added with text.

Total weight of foam was 3.01 oz. This does not include the revised vertical wing tabs. Haven't got around to doing the templates and cutting yet.

Adding a few more pictures and starting on revised vertical wing tabs. The build is coming along very nicely. The Main wing almost wants to glide on its own, just nose heavy. Got 8mm CF arrow shafts. Nice carbon fiber tube. Also dinked around a bit and bent up a control horn / pull cable joiner-tensioner out of 1mm stainless steel wire. Looks to do the trick, now if I can bend 3 more *just* like it. Got the leading edges on both front and rear wing sanded. Just a few little things to do before I mount the servos, bolt the 2 wings together, and start doing glide tests to determine CG and battery / receiver / ESC placement. Shooting for sometime tomorrow to start glide testing.

17 Fed 2011

Had a couple of setbacks, First was the weather was just too nice and I went flying yesterday. Tossed the Cheap-n-Easy (https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...t=cheap+n+easy) and the dog into the buggy and ran 3 battery packs through. Cut the slot out a bit and put a 9050 prop on it. Can we say FUN... The other was while gluing the servo dogboxes/boom pillowblocks the gorilla glue moved the part while setting up. I was able to get it off but not with out tearing up one layer of foam on the dogbox. After a few colorful words. I just walked away and said to myself, self, this ain't going to ruin your day and it didn't.

Posting a couple more pics. Got the servo holes cut out in the wing and 3 more joiners bent up. Decided to use the same 1mm SS wire for the pull cables. That wire won't stretch and I don't have to run down to china central and buy some fishing line leader. Weighed all the parts yesterday. Foam with motor stick installed, CF tube, 8 ea. 4-40 screws and nuts. 5.1 oz. Adding up the electronics and motor I should come up with an AUW of ~11.5oz or so. A bit on the heavy side for a 36" foamie maybe but that weight includes a E-Max 2822 1300kv motor that can make 30oz thrust with a 9050 prop and an 8040 prop will make 24oz thrust, and is the recommended prop for that motor. Thats just over 2 to 1 thrust to weight. Should be enough. And I did get the revised vertical wing tabs done after a lot of deliberation. First drawing I did looked like the plane had mouse ears, HUGE mouse ears. No way was I agoina put mouse ears on my Zombie Hunter, so after going through 5 or 6 different designs trying to get a balance between form and function, i came up with what I think should work. My Sketchup running under Wine in Linux/KDE will not export a 2D image. All I get is a blank .jpg. So I have attached a screen shot of the desktop so show the new wing tabs. Sketchup file is also posted of aircraft with the new tabs.

19 Feb, 2011

Good news and bad news and both the same news. Pictures and details in post #8 https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...95&postcount=8

Well, a few hours later and what do ya know, IT FLIES!!!!! See details in post #9 https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...16&postcount=9
I am rather happy today. I think this design has the potential to be a real winner. More testing will tell the tail but first impressions are very nice... IT FRACKING FLIES!!!!!!

20 Feb, 2011

Managed to smack up the XZH-1 real pretty like. A case of "not enough pilot". Should of left the controls with what I know and not try something new. CG still being sorted out. See post # 19 for details. https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...3&postcount=19
Last edited by Quick61; Feb 20, 2011 at 03:48 PM. Reason: Update
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Feb 14, 2011, 11:00 PM
volare est vivere
ray foley's Avatar
hi there from Toledo

I like it !!! Keep up the good work.

ciao -rjf
Feb 15, 2011, 12:47 AM
Just call me crash for short
Quick61's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray foley
hi there from Toledo

I like it !!! Keep up the good work.

ciao -rjf
Thank you, moving forward, just did an update and posted some more pics. About ~4 hrs south of you down here in Athens County. Wind was blowing so hard it was pushing my 8400lb buggy around. Having a second thought, I decided not to go flying today.
Feb 17, 2011, 11:52 AM
Just call me crash for short
Quick61's Avatar
Thread OP

Updated XZH-1


Just added a few more pics and Sketchup file to the first post. The revised vertical wing tabs should work. that's all for now, back to building and this time I'll see what I can do to keep the glue from moving my parts while it is setting up. The gorilla glue foams up when activated by water and that proses seams to shift the part around, even when weighted down. Maybe I'll add a LOT more weight and see if that will keep things still.
Feb 17, 2011, 12:18 PM
Registered User
Crash & Burn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick61
Just added a few more pics and Sketchup file to the first post. The revised vertical wing tabs should work. that's all for now, back to building and this time I'll see what I can do to keep the glue from moving my parts while it is setting up. The gorilla glue foams up when activated by water and that proses seams to shift the part around, even when weighted down. Maybe I'll add a LOT more weight and see if that will keep things still.
You really don't need to add any water to the gorilla glue unless you need to fill in some big gaps. There is always enough humidity in the air to set it off. I hope this info might help. By the way, I think your design is really neat and am watching your progress and looking forward to seeing your plane in flight.
Feb 17, 2011, 01:15 PM
Just call me crash for short
Quick61's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash & Burn
You really don't need to add any water to the gorilla glue unless you need to fill in some big gaps. There is always enough humidity in the air to set it off. I hope this info might help. By the way, I think your design is really neat and am watching your progress and looking forward to seeing your plane in flight.
Thanks for the tip. I have always dampened the other surface as per the instructions. I do know that it still foams up a bit and sets with just the glue as seen on the spreader sticks that I use to get an even coat on the pieces. I will try that here in just a bit and lookie see how it works. Maybe I'll have it to the glide test phase by later on tonight, but then again I'v said that one before so no promises......

Mark
Feb 17, 2011, 06:51 PM
Just call me crash for short
Quick61's Avatar
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Control horn for pull-pull


Just did a drawing of a control horn for the pull-pull setup. This sits 3/8"back from the hinge and is to have the pivot point directly over the hinge line. Did it in Qcad, so there is only a .dxf file for now. Will add it to the sketchup drawings and first post later when I do another regular update.
Feb 19, 2011, 12:02 AM
Just call me crash for short
Quick61's Avatar
Thread OP

Good news / Bad news


Today was a mixed bag of good news and bad news. First the good news. It flies! Got to the point of being able to wedge the Tail wing to the booms and gave it a glide test. Floated across the room and landed softly on the bed. Second test was across the living room. Same, Nice and soft. Then outside in the wind. The plane just glided along and settled down gently.

Now the bad news... It flies! That is to say I did nothing to the plane as to adding weight to balance it out. It flew right off the bench. The problem comes in when one realizes that all the electronics, motor, battery, ESC, receiver were intended to go forward of the CG line. Not good. Way, way nose heavy.

At this point I have several ways to go. 1, stretch the tail back to get leverage on the CG. 2, Add weight to the tail, not fond of this idea but we'll see just how much weight it will take. 3, Convert into a pusher. While I like this one a little more, It adds foam in places that hinder my testing of the wing to some degree. 4. Strap the battery and ESC to the tail booms back from CG to balance out the motor on front. I have tried this one already and it worked. The down side of this is it detracts from the overall looks of the build and requires extension wiring for the battery and motor to connect to the ESC. No real biggie there but like I said, it really detracts from the looks and it does not solve the problem going forward. That being my plans for a 2X size, twin motor build. I have a BW motor that is about an oz lighter that the E-Max 2822 that I had inteded to use on this build and that should help some.

Anyway, a few more pics are posted and it's back to work.
Feb 19, 2011, 06:45 PM
Just call me crash for short
Quick61's Avatar
Thread OP

Good news / GOOD NEWS?


It FLIES! It fracking FLIES! I don't believe it but I can say that the Spyderbreath XZH-1 is airworthy. I am one happy camper today. A lot of thought and planing along with more that a few sleepless nights went into this build. Worth all of it, I can report with a smile on my face. Now for a few of the details.

First off I did not get to fly for long today as the wind has it's cackles up. Gusting and swirling enough to snatch the plain from level flight 10' up to the ground before I could react, so theres that. I did a few test hops in the side yard just to see if it would go straight into the ground or not and thinking it might be a bit nose heavy, I gave it a little up trim before its first launch. The plane left my hand and headed for the roof of the house. So much for the up trim. Took than out and it went out in an almost level climb. MAN!! does this wing lift. AUW is 12.1 oz, a bit heavier than what I was shooting for but that didn't seem to matter a wit to this plane. It just wanted to fly. With that boost of confidence upon me I tossed the bird and dog in to the buggy and headed around the block for the park. As I said, gusty and windy, flag going from flutter to straight out and wanting to leave the pole. NOT good for flying but I went for it anyway. Tossed her into the air at a moment when the wind was down and it took off. Flew straight away with an almost level climb. gave it a bit of up and almost went vertical, pushed the nose back down and flipped the dif switch and went to 65% throws. Better and I have no more worries about the control surfaces being enough. Then I went to turn and the swirling wind tossed it to the ground. picked it back up and tossed it into the wind and it shot up then down, then backwards as the wind hit what I would guess to be around 15-20 or so gust and it was all I could do to get the motor cut off as the wind took it cartwheeling and then into the ground. had the ESC and receiver being held on with just some tape as this was going to be a short test. That last bump knocked the tape lose and that was my hint to pack it in and wait for a calmer day. Maybe tomorrow.

Oh the motor was a BW type 2712-12 with a 7x6 prop. I was launching south of half throttle and the wing was just wanting to lift. From what I have seen so far, this modded KFm7 wing holds a lot of promise. More flights on calm days will tell much more, but form just this little bit of flight and the way it behaved, I have great confidence.
Feb 19, 2011, 06:59 PM
Registered User
Crash & Burn's Avatar
fantastic Quick! Isn't it great when a plan comes together? Sounds like a real winner. I hope you can get some in flight pictures or even better yet a short video. Once again, congratulations!
Feb 19, 2011, 07:49 PM
Just call me crash for short
Quick61's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash & Burn
fantastic Quick! Isn't it great when a plan comes together? Sounds like a real winner. I hope you can get some in flight pictures or even better yet a short video. Once again, congratulations!
Thanks Crash! (Crash and Burn is one of my favorite Pat Travers songs) From what little time I have so far with this wing design, the first impression I get from it is MAN, does this wing want to lift! It is one of the things I was looking for and I found it. As soon as the wind settles down I will see if it is just the KFm7 overall or if my enhanced steeps really make a difference. Either way, I am impressed with the lift and the GC seems to be very forgiving. I am about 1 1/4 inch to the nose from where the glide test showed it to be and this plane just wants to find sky. A big gust came up while I was headed into the wind on the second toss and the thing, while staying rather level jumped 20 feet or so UP while going backwards!!! Yea, this thing wants to fly. Yes it is great when a plan comes together! No promises on the video for a while. The good camera is on vacation down south without me. Could be twards the end of next month before I can get any good video, but I will see what I can do.
Feb 19, 2011, 09:08 PM
Just call me crash for short
Quick61's Avatar
Thread OP

Correct Terminology???


I would like some help in properly describing the "Flying Tail" in the XZH-1. To my thinking, the control surfaces are not elevons as they are mounted to the main wing reguardless if its a flying wing, delta wing, etc.. It's not a V tail in the traditional sense as it is flat and it's self a wing, which would also, again, to my thinking, rule out rudavator. What do you all think? All input welcome. So far, "Flying Tail" is the best I can come up with.

Mark
Feb 19, 2011, 09:28 PM
Registered User
Dickeroo's Avatar

I am so happy for you and the results were a wonderful experience.


Quick...

An experience like this will last you a lifetime. It's something you can carry with you in your mind and replay whenever you want. I am so pleased that the KFm7 provides so much lift. Let's hope that you inspire more people to give it a try. Remember, the step idea came from a paper airplane that I developed over forty years ago. All the experts trashed it, but it was the RC people who were willing to use it. People like yourself who are willing to try new things. Who knew that it would lead to so much creativity and experimentation in the RC world. I am thrilled. You've made my day.

Dick Kline
Feb 19, 2011, 09:44 PM
Just call me crash for short
Quick61's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickeroo
Quick...

An experience like this will last you a lifetime. It's something you can carry with you in your mind and replay whenever you want. I am so pleased that the KFm7 provides so much lift. Let's hope that you inspire more people to give it a try. Remember, the step idea came from a paper airplane that I developed over forty years ago. All the experts trashed it, but it was the RC people who were willing to use it. People like yourself who are willing to try new things. Who knew that it would lead to so much creativity and experimentation in the RC world. I am thrilled. You've made my day.

Dick Kline
Those words, coming from you Dick, have quite literally put a tear of joy in me eye. I can hardly wait for the wind to be gone when the sun is up to forward my testing of this wing and the enhanced steps. I was about to PM you with the news on this KFm7 and here you are. I am also intrigued as to what effect, if any, the KFm3 Wing tabs have. Any thoughts on that? And once again, thank you for your kind words, they mean allot.
Feb 19, 2011, 10:45 PM
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Dickeroo's Avatar

Regarding KFm3 wing tabs...


Quick... believe me... you've made my day as well.

Here is a video that shows the Shuriken with thin Steps on the wings, tails and verticals. It seems to fly extremely well.

Shuriken-v2 testing @ 60Acres 5-15-10 (10 min 0 sec)


No one has a true understanding of how these steps affect the aerodynamics. My conjecture is that they form vortexes that attach to the surface of the skin and this helps to utilize some of the negative affects of drag by employing this negative energy. I also believe that the vortexes tend to equalize the air pressure on both wings so it tends to want to fly level which is why you can fly it hands off. Also, since the vortex becomes part of the surface it is air against air and that the reduces friction that surrounds the aircraft. Maybe someday there will be a better understanding of how it all works.

Where do you live, by the way?

Dick


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