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also then I put what I think is along the lines of what an entire brushless system would be without the walkera esc. I left out the part about the power check because i'm still not sure about that. If you notice on the current setup, the black and red wire that go to the power check area, well the red wire doesn't plug into the positive terminal but instead into the signal terminal (i have that on my schematic but not very clear, and tried to get a pic of it on my heli). Would this mean that if we tap the power from the brushless esc for this power check, should we grab the negative and positive wires, or the negative and signal wires. Another thing about the entirely brushless setup, if the power is going from the battery, to the esc, then to the rx through the positive and negative wires, then that means the signal from the rx would need to go back to the brushless esc and may need a conversion. Same with the tail esc where it plugs into the rx. Trying to wrap my head around it and thinking about the general path of the signal, it goes something like this.... when flying, i would input throttle amount into the transmitter, which relays the signal to the rx, which then relays the signal to the esc, then the esc uses that signal info to know how much power to pull from the battery and deliver to the motor. Anyway, my point is that I don't know if the signal coming from the rx going to the brushed esc is the same as the signal needed on a brushless esc. That's why i put a little box on that schematic with some question marks in it, it might have to be some sort of signal converter. Or maybe we just need to figure out the power check thing and the other signal is the same across the different electronic speed controllers. ImagesView all Images in thread
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Last edited by dilberto; Jan 20, 2012 at 02:31 PM.
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Hi Dilberto, thanks for all your effort to shed light on this vexing problem.
The red wire on the Power Check port confused me, too. I have been PMing with Wasp about this problem, and he is clear that the first pin of the Power Check port is a signal pin. Although I am still hopelessly confused by this whole thing, it is clear from Wasp that the middle pins of the Rx are all tied together at +5V, and all the pins closest to the edge of the Rx are grounds tied together. All the first pins, farthest from the edge of the Rx, are signal pins. Wasp stated to me that the resistor goes between the signal pin and the middle, +5V pin of the Power Check port on the Rx. As for the Main port on the Rx, it seems to me that the +5V and ground pins must be receiving power from the stock ESC to the Rx, leaving the first pin as the signal pin. Wasp didn't specifically say this, it's just my take based on everything thus far. So, the stock ESC powers the Rx by way of the red & black wires in the Main port, and then Rx returns a signal to the stock ESC by way of the signal pin. If this it true, and somehow I think I'm getting something wrong here, then that tells me that whatever signal is being emitted from the Main port of the Rx is being further processed by the stock ESC. Essentially, we have one signal wire coming from the Rx to the stock ESC, which then turns this signal into (+) and (-) brushed motor leads. Our RTF-Heli style signal converter is designed to plug directly into these two brushed motor leads, which leaves me at a loss as to how this converter can be used with the one signal wire from the Rx. Another difficulty is that Wasp is using his own signal converters, and is not quite familiar with what we are using. He mentioned that he felt the RTF-Heli type signal converter may not be useable with just the Rx alone, and therefore we may therefore be stuck with the stock ESC being in the circuit. |
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hey navigator, i agree, i was seeing it the same way. There is a 5 volt rail, a ground rail, then the signal wires going to different pins on the control chip which communicates with the various devices.
That's good info from wasp about the power check, just putting a resistor between ground and the signal on the power check is easy enough. I have various resistors here so I might try that at see if i can at least get it to spin the brushless. I don't think we can use that signal converter we have now if we aren't using the stock esc. It seems to just take a straight dc output and turn it into the signal the brushless esc needs. To plug the brushless esc directly in, if the rx sends a different signal specially designed for the stock esc vs a brushless esc then we might need a special signal converter for that. It may be a somewhat standard item though. Right now i'm stuck with my stock esc anyway, i need it to control the brushed tail motor. I'm working tonight trying to get my 450mutt back up and flying so i can take some more pictures. I swapped out the tail servo holder that broke, then when i was bench testing it i noticed my main motor started chewing up my gear. The motor felt wobbly and when i took it off i noticed that a little part of the motor mount right where the motor screws into was broken. It's the same type of metal that the tail servo holder is and apparently isn't very strong (exi brand). I figured the tail servo holder broke because the camera might have hit it when it popped off, but I doubt anything hit the motor After realizing I didn't have all the parts needed to get that back up and flying i went to my 3gx that threw its blades. I thought i might have just needed a new feathering shaft, but upon further inspection the metal swash stabilizer parts are bent. looks like i'm going to need to place an order for some parts. |
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Dilberto, I had some thoughts after reading your post. I went back and read through Wasp's email once again, and he is quite certain that the resistor goes between the signal pin and the middle, +5V pin on the Power Check port.
Also, the brushed ESC output is definitely a pulsed signal -- it's just pulsed in such a manner that the effective voltage to the stock motor can be varied as though it was straight DC. The signal converter translates this pulsed signal into one that can be understood by the brushless ESC. And this leads me to my conundrum: If we power the Rx with the (+) and (-) leads from the brushless ESC, leaving only the one signal pin left in the Main port, then how can we have two leads going from the Rx to the signal converter? The only thing I can think of at this point is to take the signal pin of the Main port as the (+) lead to the signal converter, and then run another wire from the ground pin of the Rx to the (-) pin of the signal converter. I don't know if this will work, and I'm affraid it could screw everything up real good. But, at the same time, this is the only other thing I can think of, and if it doesn't work, then I remain at a complete loss for ideas. |
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nav, thanks for the info. I just tried putting a resistor between those two pins on the power check (saw your post saying it's the positive to signal ports) and then plugged the brushless esc directly into the walkera rx, but luck spinning the motor. My rx bound and my servos functioned fine so that means the esc was feeding the rx power. The esc just kept beeping though and couldn't seem to interprate the signal. though it knew when i moved my throttle stick up, it would pause with the beeping....
I doubt that one signal converter will work that's used for that pulsed signal to the brushed motor (guess that pulsing power also explains why the green pcb is on top of that motor). We probably need a different converter, cause it seems like whatever is coming out of that rx and going to the brushless esc, the brushless esc doesn't understand. |
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Dilberto, that sounds like we've got the whole Power Check port taken care of. We also know that the (+) and (-) pins on the Main port feed juice to the Rx, right? So here's what I'm thinking. The (+) and (-) wires go from the BL ESC to the (+) and (-) pins on the Rx and also the (+) and (-) pins on the signal converter. That way, the Rx and the signal converter are getting juice. Now, what would happen if we take the signal pin on the Main port and wire that to the (+) lead on the other side of the signal converter, where the brushed ESC leads used to go? And, then, we wire the (-) pin of the Main port the (-) lead of the of the signal converter, too? My reasoning is that we would then be running signal (relative to ground) to the signal converter. I cannot see any other way, but I also don't want you or me to fry anything, either.
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Hey Dilberto, here's a quick & dirty schematic of what I'm thinking.
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Since there is only one signal wire, and a signal on one wire can only be a series of on and off (or 1 and 0 ) then there is a chance the signal pulse is the same into and out of the stock esc. I'm tempted to take this heli up to work and have one of my buddies help me hook it up to an o-scope to see. I don't think it'll fry anything to just try out that setup (sorry, no money back guarentees on that one ) but i don't believe you'd get any response from the motor either. If the signal converter card is made to interpret that amplified signal coming from the stock esc, then it might not even pick up the weak signal from the rx (assuming they are the same). That would probably just take some swapping out of components on that signal card, which we can figure out if it comes to it, but there are probably easier ways. oh, i looked closer at that power check port on the rx that the wire from the main esc plugs into. Since i was putting a resistor on there anyway, I got out my multimeter and measured the resistance between the two wires coming from the main esc that plug into the signal and ground of the rx. They measured 2 kOhm between them so i searched through my resistors and found two 1 kOhm resistors and strung them together then did my best to attach them to the rx terminals in every combination. Unfortunately I didn't notice any difference. ah well. I'd really like to see what that throttle signal is doing though, and compare it to my 2702v rx that perfectly controls the exact same Exceed 40a esc that's on my v400. |
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Last edited by dilberto; Jan 21, 2012 at 02:00 AM.
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It's funny you should mention the 2702rx. Wasp remarked that he thought it might better to just get a different rx that can handle brushless motors rather than beating ourselves up trying to get the 2614rx to work.
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Sorry to jump in late, but I have been working on a similar project that kinda parallels what you have been working on. Same, but different? I have a 59#DQ which came from Walkera DBL BL, but with a flybar. I wanted to go FBL and asked Walkera if it was possible using the RX2614V, and they flat out said NO! WON'T WORK! That was it, so, I did as I usually do, go out & research something until I find a solution, and I did. I saw that the RTF BL conversion uses a BL signal converter, and since mine is already wired for DBL BL, I figured I could just plug the 2614V in and get it to work. It took me about a week to work the bugs out, but I finally got it spooled up tonight. I hope to have it in the air tomorrow. The key piece I found was here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/V400D02-V370...item53ead6f9c8 He provides all of the schematics & instructions that you need for a DBL BL conversion on a V400D02, including using a 1000 ohm resistor for the power check port on the RX, and using the 10A-T ESC from the 59#DQ for the tail motor. So now I have a FBL 59#DQ with a 4-blade RH. Happy flying! AB |
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salut à tous
ceci est une bonne nouvelle, depuis le temps, c 'était le dernier ecceuil. Je commande et je teste. à bientôt hello to all This is good news since the time, that was the last ecceuil. I order and I test. see you soon |
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