Peter Rake's Morane Saulnier AI - Upsized - Page 5 - RC Groups
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Dec 18, 2010, 07:37 PM
a.k.a Maltone
Pat Lynch's Avatar
Originally Posted by Greg D
It appears you are modeling my avatar.
I hope it's not illegal Is that a picture of your model? Any other photos to be seen?

Pat (hungry for MS AI pictures...)
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Dec 18, 2010, 09:21 PM
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Greg D's Avatar
Actually that is the Memorial Flight Associations AI, lol.
I have "parts" of a 1/4 scale one built. Peter's from Charlie's parts is one the list - just need to finish a few others first.
Someday maybe I should finish the 1/4 scale one - I only started it about 11-12 years ago, lol.
Dec 18, 2010, 11:44 PM
a.k.a Maltone
Pat Lynch's Avatar
Dick (evvo) - sorry we didn't answer your question - laziness and/or simplication I expect Only a few real aircraft have the tail hinge axis coinciding it seems - no reason why they should and mechancally, every reason not to - esp. where the linkage is internal.

Greg - that aircraft may well be my prototype - so much info at their excellent site. I do like the non-flying one at the US Fantasy of Flight Museum too.......

These two drawings from the type handbook (courtesy of Windsock Mini-Datafile) show how it's done. Tricky bit is arrangeing the servo up front with scale exits for the aileron pushrods, and fitting the tail servos where none of them will interfere with a (hopefully) fully fitted out cockpit area

I think I've sorted it out - and found a place for 2/3 S 4400 LIPOs. I'm studying Hammerd's BE12 build where he used a scale size prop and abig motor on 2S. I've got a Vintage1-designed 16" scale prop to swing at low rpm. The battery is (currently) 2S2P 2200 - they fit sideways up against the firewall - or even through it if needed.

Much thinking - that is the good bit......

Dec 19, 2010, 09:57 AM
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Greg D's Avatar
The 1/4 scale plans show the same setup - it's done in wood though.
A scale prop was what slowed things down on the 1/4 scale model years ago. We didn't have the motors etc we do now. It may end up with an outrunner and a reduction drive. Scale prop on it ends up around 28-30 inches!
I am starting to get wound up about working on it again with this thread - I really have no place to keep a plane that size though. has an 84" span and is about 65" long.
Dec 19, 2010, 10:16 AM
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Greg D's Avatar
I always though 1/6 would be a nice size for this plane.
Nick Ziroli drew one up at this size for glow an eternity ago. Would likely need a pretty serious diet to not fly like a P 51, lol.

The Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome has 2 of them, 1 flys, the other is mocked up to look like an "N" and is one static display or so I read somewhere years ago.
The flying one was Tom Polopinks inspiration for the 1/4 scale plan I have.

While you are there - take a look at some of the other planes they have.
Last edited by Greg D; Dec 19, 2010 at 10:24 AM.
Dec 20, 2010, 05:37 AM
a.k.a Maltone
Pat Lynch's Avatar
Thanks for the links Greg

Another 1/2 fuselage is taking shape. The formers were cut by sticking the shapes on the plan to the balsa with UHU Sticit. It comes off easily with a dampened cloth.

Nothing remarkable here - all the servos fit under the cockpit floor in its scale position - a bonus The aileron servos lie flat while the tail servos are upright under the pilot's seat. I made these ones upright in case I want pull/pull linkage to the elev/rudder. The space forward of the floor allows almost any combination of batteries I want fit OK. I have yet to decide how the hatches will be arranged.

The floor must be fixed in place before the fuse halves are joined and has a small amount of scale detail on it so that will slightly complicate things.

An order has been placed with HK for 4 HS81-class servos, a 4250-700 motor, 60A esc and an Assan 2.4 ghz rx.

The last unrelated picture is my flying strip - for years a dustbowl and now people are losing models in the outfield! It hasn't been like that for many years.

Dec 20, 2010, 07:08 AM
What's 3D?
trumps's Avatar
Hooly-Dooly Pat, it almost looks like a real RC club field!
are you finding the larger builds easier to operate off of your paddock?
have you had any joy regarding your rudder operation method yet?

Dec 20, 2010, 08:56 PM
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Greg D's Avatar
Here I have cold, wind & snow.
It's fly the Heli in the living room season!
Dec 26, 2010, 03:34 AM
a.k.a Maltone
Pat Lynch's Avatar

The Tale continues....

The tail I meant.....
After a short break coping with the 'silly season' - inlaws, outlaws, food, travel etc, I am back on the AI.

After completing the lower fuselage half and determining some internal requirements, I needed to build the tail parts and sort the various linkages. These are not difficult but an assembly sequence needs to be developed as some bits must be installed before the halves are joined. So the tail surfaces were built - all from 4mm balsa sheet and strip. I will now make up the rudder and elevator links, bearings and horns and check for fit. These bits of hardware will probably be installed in one half of the fuselage before joining them together. I plan on using pushrods with clevises as I can (I hope) attach these later working between the stringers. The slot for the tailplane was created in 4mm soft balsa inserts between the rear stringers. Each fuse half had a 2mm slot created using nail-file boards totalling 2mm thickness.

The tail surfaces are mostly just Pete's plan enlarged by 1.33 but some internal 'ribs' have been altered to match the prototype being modelled. Some AIs had 3 parallel ribs per tailplane side, while others (incl. mine) had two angled sets of ribs.

Now for the metalwork...

Dec 26, 2010, 11:37 PM
a.k.a Maltone
Pat Lynch's Avatar

Tail Linkage Stuff...

After a few false starts, I have a workable and fairly robust internal linkage for the elevators and rudder. Both have aluminium tube bearings epoxied into the woodwork - I was going to rely on the hinges as the main pivots but the sloppy movement seemed excessive so I changed to the current method.

The brass horns were bent double at the soldered end giving more security to a joint that will be buried when the fuselage halves are joined. The pushrods have 2-56 threaded inserts that can be inserted after assembly.

I did some head-scratching about how to accurately align the elevator bearings with the centre-line of the stab. I eventually tack-glued the al tube bearings accurately to the stab, temporarily fixed the stab in place checking all aspects of its alignment, then epoxied the tubes to the fuselage. The CA tack-glue was then cut away and the stab removed leaving the bearings in the correct position.

The elevator horn is angled forward about 30 degrees giving about 20deg down and 40 up possible elevator movement. The rudder horn needed a small amount of the adjacent former cutting away for maximum movement.

Now I can consider joining the fuselage halves together....

Dec 27, 2010, 01:25 AM
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owlsabie's Avatar
Pat - nice work! Your elevator linkage photo just solved a major headache for me on my current project - thank you
Dec 27, 2010, 09:07 AM
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halfastrut's Avatar
Lovely work !

Dec 28, 2010, 04:15 PM
a.k.a Maltone
Pat Lynch's Avatar

Two halves make a whole.....

The two fuselage sections were joined progressively using Titebond. The front end parts were aligned, glued and clamped, and then the tail parts were eased into alignment and glued. The tailplane was inserted and used as a reference to be sure no warps or twists ocurred.

The exposed and visible parts of the wooden frames around the cockpit were sanded, filled and given a couple of coats of acrylic mixed from red-brown and orange - approximating the stained wood. I tried some VERY light graining by giving another thinned coat of orange - it is hardly visible but then neither will the wood be

The 1/16 Bass ply floor can be got in/out through the cockpit opening and will be detailed before fixing it in place and mounting the servos.

Next will be to jig the fuselage up and make up the centre-section struts and maybe think about undercarriage......

Pat (going slow)
Dec 29, 2010, 05:35 AM
a.k.a Maltone
Pat Lynch's Avatar
While pontificating how I'd go about the internal cockpit detail, a parcel arrived from HK with my electrics in it. The Turnigy 4250-600 should turn a big prop on 3s or even 2s. The 60A ESC has a 4A switching BEC - enough to power 4 GWS 19 gm servos. I chose slightly heavier duty, ball race servos because the aileron linkage might need a bit more power than a standard HS 81 class servo. Because they are so cheap, I bought another Assan 2.4 ghz rx for the AI.

Now back to the cockpit detail. I want to include the visible portions of the tubular steel frame and am trying to make it in sections that can be detailed on the bench and added later........

Dec 30, 2010, 06:21 AM
a.k.a Maltone
Pat Lynch's Avatar
Took a while to work out how I was doing the floor but now it is made and will be glued in place tomorrow. All servos and rx will be under the floor - the tail servos will extend up under the seat later. Obviously the rudder bar cables are dummy - no working cockpit here! I'm not adding detail where ther is no chance of seeing it.....lazy I guess


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