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Nov 07, 2017, 08:02 PM
What Goes Up...Must Come Down
abjets's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_flyer View Post
Please post the empty weight without fan if you get a chance.
I was going to get one just for the purpose of swapping to 50mm straight away, but in the main thread they posted the stock weight without battery as 400g
Freewing's 64 fan is 27g, the motor 50g, the 30A esc around 30g. That would make the empty foam plus servos weigh a whopping 293g, more than any Jpower airframe. AMX/Screamer are the lightest at 120g, F-35 amongst the heaviest at 175g for the foam only.
If the F-8 really is 290g for the foam its not worth it (for me) putting in a 50mm fan, weight advantage is lost due to heavy airframe.
I show 246g for just the foam airframe and two stock servos(mounted), no push rods, no motor/fan/esc.
It is a much bigger airframe than a SA 50mm jet. I have messed with a possible 50mm application (even a MAXED out Wemo set up), but I don't think you would be happy with the result IMO.
I am going to try a Freewing 64mm 12B fan in her, motor still a bit undecided, but do have the Freewing 3500Kv motor (the bigger one), and a Don's Wicked 4000Kv motor (lighter, but not a WOT all day long option) that is looking promising and on the bench for testing.
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Nov 07, 2017, 08:24 PM
What Goes Up...Must Come Down
abjets's Avatar
More on topic...
I was asked by a fellow pilot at the field this past weekend " If you had to choose one of your rc birds as your only option, what would it be?"

A few of you know that I am stricken with the same disease a majority of us share...LOTS of airplanes, of all sorts!
For me at the moment, the choice was easy, my SkyAngel 50mm F-16. Still going strong after many years and being flown religiously almost every weekend and at least a couple of times.
A very capable airframe with the right setup.

This is from 3 years ago...
SAf16 OhSoQuiet (2 min 58 sec)


And one from one of my most favorite days in 2017 captured on film...
SA 50mm F 16 Strutting her stuff (3 min 38 sec)


Long live the 50mm jets!
Nov 08, 2017, 02:40 AM
we can take off without that
green_flyer's Avatar
Thanks abjets, 246g may just be on the edge of workable for a 50mm XRP on 3s. I agree I too would go for 12b 64mm if I get the F-8.
Your F-16 flies so great, I keep forgetting to get one. I better get one before they disappear.
Nov 08, 2017, 10:40 AM
What Goes Up...Must Come Down
abjets's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_flyer View Post
Thanks abjets, 246g may just be on the edge of workable for a 50mm XRP on 3s. I agree I too would go for 12b 64mm if I get the F-8.
Your F-16 flies so great, I keep forgetting to get one. I better get one before they disappear.
Agreed Green_Flyer...it might work (w/ a 50mm fan) but it won't have very good performance, and may be a really tough launch with such little volume of air moving through.

The old F-16 is a fantastic flyer...glad I was able to snag a spare bare airframe back when that was available.
Nov 08, 2017, 11:54 AM
Innocent Bystander
Bobaroo's Avatar
AB is Correct on all points regarding the SA F-16. Remarkable Little Jets
Nov 08, 2017, 01:07 PM
What Goes Up...Must Come Down
abjets's Avatar
They really are a blast to fly with a very wide flight envelope (SA F-16).
Cheers!
Nov 08, 2017, 03:35 PM
Old !Bold Pilot
kevinkal's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by abjets View Post
They really are a blast to fly with a very wide flight envelope (SA F-16).
Cheers!
Worthy of an Avatar photo!

<<----
Nov 08, 2017, 03:44 PM
What Goes Up...Must Come Down
abjets's Avatar
Yes sir!
Nov 09, 2017, 12:34 PM
Registered User

Exploding 50mm fans ...


I agree the the SA F-16 is one of the best!


Quote:
Originally Posted by abjets View Post
.
.
They will explode if out of balance for sure.
.
.
If a lot out of balance yes, e.g. with a damaged blade but with a almost brand new and 3S? NO should not be "possible"
with a reasonable kV.

I suspect a material fault or something. Both fans was bought as part of 2 F-8 kits from HK.
Just put them on the shelf because they looked bad. Retested one in bench this summer and it blew up.
The other one blew up in my AMX I believe.

But I suspect that it's not only me who had problems with them! If the original 50 fans had been
aceptable quality the CH producers would never bothered to do a redesign! That is for SURE!

Doing redesign and make new molds for a fan ... cost money and nobody would bother to do that
in a limited market as 50mm EDF! If it was not for that the stock original 50mm SA fans simply
are/was dangerous in some cases.

Most who bought Sky Angels 50mm EDF planes was probably kids who did not know nothing about EDF!
They probably got a bad start ... Those who survived went for quads instead
Nov 09, 2017, 05:12 PM
Old !Bold Pilot
kevinkal's Avatar
I received two of the FMS 50mm 12 blade EDFs with the 4500kv motor, slated for 4S power. I got around to running them up last night. The balance is very good. Unfortunately, the impeller is a very close fit to the inner diameter of the shroud/housing and it rubs slightly on one side. Also, there is a lip of mold flashing on the trailing edge of all blades that will certainly reduce efficiency... so I need to remove the impeller, sand off the flashing and see about shifting the motor slightly to the side to center the motor axis with the shroud centerline. The Shroud and impeller look to be molded from a reinforced plastic and appear to be very durable compared to both the stock units and even the XRP units. When I get around to integrating one of these babys into an airframe, I'll measure and post thrust and power results.
Nov 10, 2017, 02:44 AM
we can take off without that
green_flyer's Avatar
If you get a chance please throw a JPower stock motor in the FMS fan on 3s and let us know the numbers. I know its a pain but it would be great to have a baseline to compare all the fans. So far we know the CS 11 has more aggressive pitch and draws more watts than XRP. I am very curious where the FMS fits between these two.
Nov 12, 2017, 03:37 AM
Old !Bold Pilot
kevinkal's Avatar

F-22 Flys Again, this time on 4S power


My F-22 had a servo strip a couple of years ago due to grass grabbing the control linkage upon landing. I've worked on repairs very slowly over the last 2 years. I removed the original servos, put in a pair HXT900 servos, and upgraded stock Skyangel 20A ESC to a HobbyWing FlyFun 30A ESC. This enables the use of 4S LiPos. Just today, I finally finished re-installing the Banana Hobby BS2X gyro and the original Spectrum AR400 receiver. I flew 6 batteries through the F-22 today, two of which were 4S 850mAh 45-90C Nanotech LiPos. The F-22 always flew very well with the stock 3S power. However, the 4S power really made this little Jet come to life. The top speed was increased a fair amount, but the Vertical performace was hugely increased well beyond unlimited. I added 14g of lead to the back of the F-22 between the exhaust exits. With this counterbalance, and a 104g 4S pack tucked into the back of the battery bay, it balanced at approximately 64mm from the forwardmost point of the leading edge (64mm behind the point where the wing panel leading edge are attached to the fuselage). This gave excellent pitch authority, making for some very nice slow flight and slow landings. Here's a video from the first of the 4S packs flown:

Skyangel F-22 50mm EDF Jet, 4S 850mAh 45-90C NanoTech LiPo (8 min 0 sec)
Last edited by kevinkal; Nov 12, 2017 at 10:02 AM.
Nov 12, 2017, 05:03 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinkal View Post
.
.
F-22 today, two of which were 4S 850mAh 45-90C Nanotech LiPos.
.
.
To get the Nano-tech to balance You got 17g lead in the tail right?

I hate to add weights ...

Nice flying/video and a good wind

Such wind is very "bumpy" variable here ... and make landing a pain.
Your landing was super!
Nov 12, 2017, 10:15 AM
Old !Bold Pilot
kevinkal's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLOEY View Post
To get the Nano-tech to balance You got 17g lead in the tail right?

I hate to add weights ...

Nice flying/video and a good wind

Such wind is very "bumpy" variable here ... and make landing a pain.
Your landing was super!
I just measured the counter balance weight again. it's exactly 14g. I hate adding weights too.. but the pay off of getting the CG right makes it well worth it. The landings I was able to make yesterday were only because I had the CG at 65mm +/- depending on which LiPo pack I had in. Having the CG back where it belongs enables excellent slow flight and slow landings. I did not notice any nasty stall characteristics either.. it just works excellent.

Haha.. about the wind, I think I was thinking of your comments when I started talking about the wind near the end of the video. I wanted to let you see exactly how much wind there was, and quantify it with a visual of the light dry grass dropping with the wind. I used the open back GoPro camera housing in this video, and even 5mph winds sound like much more than they are. I don't think the wind exceeded 10mph on the ground during any of my fights, but perhaps 50 ft above it was blowing a little harder. I think the gyro helped smooth out some of the bumpiness in the air, as just upwind of this flying field is a field with some dirt levies, tall bushes and trees that tend to make for bumpy air down wind of them. The air down low during landings was a little bumpy as you describe.. but having that low speed pitch authority to get a good flare in at the end made all the difference.
Nov 12, 2017, 12:11 PM
Innocent Bystander
Bobaroo's Avatar

NiceOne KKal...


I've posted some of this Before on Various Threads !! Many of my "Vintage" Jets are coming apart at the Seams !!!

Long Ago.... In the days before "FoamTack", we used to get these Jets Pre-Assembled with whatever Glue They decided to use at the time... whoever "They" were. Many of my FMS and SA birds are failing at these Glue Joints I guess just from the Ravages of Time. Sometimes I catch these failures before flight, sometimes in flight. Soooooooo, because I like your Style and think you're Cool, I'd urge you to go over your early ARF stuff carefully at the Factory Glue Joints.
Now I realize that a lot of Guys don't get overly excited about their "Cheapie" little Foamie Airplanes. Many probably don't even make it through a weekend. But for those of us who go a little bit beyond the Market Expectations with these things and keep them around for Years and Years engaging in Various Upgrades as they develop, I strongly suggest you look these areas over Very Carefully ! Here's just a few examples, there are More.

Nicely done with the 4S in the Raptor. They are GreatFlyers... And 2min 10sec of Gloriousness is Waaaaaay better than 4 min 20 sec of Mediocrity to my way of Thinking !! Enjoy. FoamiesRule!


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