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Jul 31, 2012, 05:17 PM
Posting, but should be working
furyphoto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by va3mw View Post
Tuning your PIDs is well described in the Wiki.

Mike
LOL!

Sorry, but after several years, there is still not a definitive guide on how to effectively tune a MK, which is why mine has been in a box for the past 12 months while I am busy actually enjoying flying other controllers.
I would like to get back to it some day, but every time I think about it i go to the "Well Described" guide and shake my head.

After years, the Wiki still has no description of what Gyro "I" does, just a bunch of ??? next to it. Nor does is seem to explain anywhere what the range of values is for each adjustment. To me these details seem like basic stuff.

MK has stepped up with some great features since other players have entered the market, but for some reason they refuse to address the fact that their documentation is horrendous.
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Jul 31, 2012, 07:16 PM
Registered User
va3mw's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by furyphoto View Post
LOL!

Sorry, but after several years, there is still not a definitive guide on how to effectively tune a MK, which is why mine has been in a box for the past 12 months while I am busy actually enjoying flying other controllers.
I would like to get back to it some day, but every time I think about it i go to the "Well Described" guide and shake my head.

After years, the Wiki still has no description of what Gyro "I" does, just a bunch of ??? next to it. Nor does is seem to explain anywhere what the range of values is for each adjustment. To me these details seem like basic stuff.

MK has stepped up with some great features since other players have entered the market, but for some reason they refuse to address the fact that their documentation is horrendous.
While we agree it isn't perfect, adjust what we do know does make a significant difference, and not doing it is worse than doing it.

I hear what you are saying. It is that every time I take some time to tune it, I am truly amazed at the difference it makes.

Even the Ardupilot I am using on a plane needs its PIDs tuned.
Aug 01, 2012, 06:54 AM
Underwater Helicopter Badge
John141's Avatar
The way to get the best out of an MK flight controller is to use it on one of their own frames. That way, it will fly awesomely once assembled - no tuning required.

How do I know? I have a Hexa 2, a Hexa XL and a Hexa on a Droidworx frame. I've never found out what Gyro I is, but I've never needed to.

For that matter, I've also put an MK stack on a xAircraft quad frame with Sunnysky motors and it flew very well with no additional tuning.
Aug 01, 2012, 09:50 AM
Don L.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John141 View Post
The way to get the best out of an MK flight controller is to use it on one of their own frames. That way, it will fly awesomely once assembled - no tuning required.

How do I know? I have a Hexa 2, a Hexa XL and a Hexa on a Droidworx frame. I've never found out what Gyro I is, but I've never needed to.

For that matter, I've also put an MK stack on a xAircraft quad frame with Sunnysky motors and it flew very well with no additional tuning.
John,

Well said.

The defaults work great for the 100% MK birds. People that use other frames, motors, and/or props and don't tune for the difference (not you Mike) have problems.

That said, it still would be nice to have comprehensive tuning instructions.

- Don
Aug 01, 2012, 11:41 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by furyphoto View Post
LOL!

Sorry, but after several years, there is still not a definitive guide on how to effectively tune a MK, which is why mine has been in a box for the past 12 months while I am busy actually enjoying flying other controllers.
I would like to get back to it some day, but every time I think about it i go to the "Well Described" guide and shake my head.

After years, the Wiki still has no description of what Gyro "I" does, just a bunch of ??? next to it. Nor does is seem to explain anywhere what the range of values is for each adjustment. To me these details seem like basic stuff.

MK has stepped up with some great features since other players have entered the market, but for some reason they refuse to address the fact that their documentation is horrendous.
Hmm, are we reading the same wiki? http://www.mikrokopter.de/ucwiki/en/MK-Parameter/Gyro

No questionsmarks for this page's gyro I.
Aug 02, 2012, 04:05 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizprod View Post
Hmm, are we reading the same wiki? http://www.mikrokopter.de/ucwiki/en/MK-Parameter/Gyro

No questionsmarks for this page's gyro I.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I beleive MK Gyro I is the force to bring it back to center and MK Gyro P is the brake or friction to bring it to a stop at center. MK Gyro D, I could use some better explanation. Basically, I set Gyro p to 0 and increased Gyro I until oscillations. Then incresed Gyro P until oscillations. I left Gyro D at defaullt. Wiz, I beleive you posted a link on RCG, to set up altitude hold. I used it and it works well now. I don't even use GPS Z.
Aug 02, 2012, 08:34 PM
Posting, but should be working
furyphoto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizprod View Post
Hmm, are we reading the same wiki?
No, we weren't, not the same page at least, this is one of the problems. Finding the right information on that wiki is one of the hardest parts of building a MK.

It costs at least $1000 to put a decent MK together. Is it really too much to ask that the folks collecting all of those $1000's offer an instruction manual, instead of hoping the people who spent the $1000's will populate the Wiki with comprehensible instructions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizprod View Post
http://www.mikrokopter.de/ucwiki/en/MK-Parameter/Gyro

No questions marks for this page's gyro I.
might as well be, what the HECK does this mean?

Gyro I
  • Position stabilization. The higher the value, the stronger the relationship between stick angle and position angle. Leads to large values ​​(compared to gyro-P) to oscillate. If high, hard control '(high angles stabilization)' can be set up under vibration inclination, if low, soft control, tilt swing, wind-sensitive.
  • Yaw I (Gier I)
    • No data?!

Also, notice on the page you referenced, the ?? beside the parameter "Yaw I"

"NO DATA". how is it possible that someone programmed this as an adjustment to tune the copter, but there is no information on how to adjust it? or do I have to find another obscure page of the wiki to dig up that information?

The truth is that the lack of good documentation for MK is pure laziness on the part of H&I and co.

A $1000+ product this complicated deserves a users manual plain and simple.

many thanks to the guys (OMM, Arthur P., Rusty, etc) who put together the existing guide. So far it is the best there is. but really, there should be a step by step manual from H&I

I'm not a hater, heck I own one of the things, but recently I've been too busy loving other controllers to bother with this one. I wonder how MK sales are doing now compared to say pre-WKM, etc. days? Making life un-necessarily difficult for your customers is a great way to lose market share. just sayin.
Aug 02, 2012, 10:38 PM
AD6-HL, MK3638, Pro Mount-200
Panama TJ's Avatar
So any of you pilots out there have seen or got one of these babies?

Brand new from MK, LancCtrl Version 1.0. (http://www.mikrokopter.de/ucwiki/en/LancCtrl) For me it looks like IR-Ctrl Version 2.0 (http://www.mikrokopter.de/ucwiki/en/IR-Ctrl). No IR connection, direct cable to the cam, status LED, video out.

Waiting on somebody to buy my GH2 to finally buy the CX760
Aug 03, 2012, 01:14 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panama TJ View Post
So any of you pilots out there have seen or got one of these babies?

Brand new from MK, LancCtrl Version 1.0. (http://www.mikrokopter.de/ucwiki/en/LancCtrl) For me it looks like IR-Ctrl Version 2.0 (http://www.mikrokopter.de/ucwiki/en/IR-Ctrl). No IR connection, direct cable to the cam, status LED, video out.

Waiting on somebody to buy my GH2 to finally buy the CX760
The cx760 is so overrated in my mind. Mid-range image quality and no Roll-axis stabilization.
Take a look at the panasonic x900 instead.
Aug 03, 2012, 01:21 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by furyphoto View Post
No, we weren't, not the same page at least, this is one of the problems. Finding the right information on that wiki is one of the hardest parts of building a MK.

It costs at least $1000 to put a decent MK together. Is it really too much to ask that the folks collecting all of those $1000's offer an instruction manual, instead of hoping the people who spent the $1000's will populate the Wiki with comprehensible instructions?



might as well be, what the HECK does this mean?

Gyro I
  • Position stabilization. The higher the value, the stronger the relationship between stick angle and position angle. Leads to large values ​​(compared to gyro-P) to oscillate. If high, hard control '(high angles stabilization)' can be set up under vibration inclination, if low, soft control, tilt swing, wind-sensitive.
  • Yaw I (Gier I)
    • No data?!

Also, notice on the page you referenced, the ?? beside the parameter "Yaw I"

"NO DATA". how is it possible that someone programmed this as an adjustment to tune the copter, but there is no information on how to adjust it? or do I have to find another obscure page of the wiki to dig up that information?

The truth is that the lack of good documentation for MK is pure laziness on the part of H&I and co.

A $1000+ product this complicated deserves a users manual plain and simple.

many thanks to the guys (OMM, Arthur P., Rusty, etc) who put together the existing guide. So far it is the best there is. but really, there should be a step by step manual from H&I

I'm not a hater, heck I own one of the things, but recently I've been too busy loving other controllers to bother with this one. I wonder how MK sales are doing now compared to say pre-WKM, etc. days? Making life un-necessarily difficult for your customers is a great way to lose market share. just sayin.
The page I linked to is the page you get to when you are in the gyro tab in the English MK tools and press help it cant be much easier?
I ofcourse agree that some of the parameters could be better explained, like the difference between gyro I and main I.
However, the gyro pid explanations are correct. There's no correct combination. Only the combination where you like the flight characteristics and gives you very good stability.
Aug 03, 2012, 11:32 AM
plus vite plus loins
Funjet2008's Avatar
I have Oktokopter Cinersar8 for you
SOLD
Last edited by Funjet2008; Sep 25, 2012 at 11:40 PM.
Aug 04, 2012, 03:58 PM
Registered User

Heavy metal


Heavy metal from HEXACOPTER board with AV200-360 on Canon 5D:

Heavy Metal (EVRAZ) from hexacopter board on Canon 5D Mark II (multicopter.ru) (2 min 23 sec)


Best regards,

Andrei
Aug 06, 2012, 04:45 PM
MultiRotor Jedi
simonjardine's Avatar
Awesome as always Andrei

We have been working hard behind the scenes, we have a whole line of new multi-rotor frames available soon.
Here is our smallest prototype, the final product will look different, so far so good these new frames are solid, aerodynamic and great for fast FPV


AXS Quadrocopter (1 min 50 sec)


Simon
Aug 07, 2012, 12:16 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonjardine View Post

We have been working hard behind the scenes, we have a whole line of new multi-rotor frames available soon.

Simon
Great stuff, Simon! Will be interesting to see ready full line of frames with so revolutionary base.

Andrei
Aug 08, 2012, 04:23 AM
Registered User
Old Man Mike's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonjardine View Post
Awesome as always Andrei

We have been working hard behind the scenes, we have a whole line of new multi-rotor frames available soon.
Here is our smallest prototype, the final product will look different, so far so good these new frames are solid, aerodynamic and great for fast FPV

Simon
Most impressive, Simon. However since you have now asended to master level FPV flying, you need to have a mere mortal fly the demos so the rest of us will not have inflated expectations!


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